Two New Crop Circles In Wiltshire

[orbit]

You make many assumptions in your post which are not based on fact but personal belief and or personal experiences. That's fine for you but doesn't mean anything to others as far as confirming ideas.

Drwu, I know that but so much of this points in this direction. Soul experience is something that is difficult to believe and is usually just dismissed as it is thought that it muddys the waters of the subject. Unfortunately they are entwined so although humanity , especially believers in the UFO phenomena would like this side to dissapear so UFO can enter the mainstream of society without being ridiculed, unfortunately it wont because they are related!
This is a case of either the subject matter changes to fit in with our reality or reality and beliefs change to fit in with the subject matter. If there is a message in any of this, I think it is the latter!

I don't think multiple alien races are here and to me it's very unikely and even somewhat naive to believe such things. So on that we disagree.
The high strangeness 'contact/abduction' cases may very well be where we will get some answers as to the true nature of these events.
And it's possible that we are looking at it through too narrow a filter which is exactly why I have been mentioning the EDH for many years now. But it is possible that the 'aliens' could have both objective reality dynamics and also are able to manipulate time and space givng them an interdimensional quality also. This is assuming of course that they are really here to begin with in an objective manner

The EDH is a possibility I wouldnt dismiss it, just like I won't dismiss the ETH and you would be wise to do the same. They could both be correct also!
I know that there IS a dimensional side to the human being that many haven't experienced. People who have had contact have usually seen this dimensional side or at least been communicated to on this level. To look down on yourself while small greys are working on you is a strange feeling, so is the feeling of being removed from your physical self.....yet it is something that is experienced quite often in this subject. I get the feeling that some think everything is on a physical level if it exists, unfortuinately some things cant be put under a microscope and looked at. Science wont believe anything that can't be analized, that is unless they need it to exist to prove a theory, the existence of dark matter springs to mind, it has to exist otherwise they are wrong about something, and that cant be true.....can it?

I have read many interesting books on the metaphysical side of this and you might want to read 'The Song Of The Greys' by Kerner who was the first person, I think, to present the 'soul stealing' idea in a book form.
It's an interesting read but full of speculation and imagination which seems to be the mainstay for most ufo theories.

Thank you I will seek this book out, it's always nice to read on recommendation.
May I add stealing is the wrong word, removal and refreshing is more apt, how can we take care of something if we dont think it exists? Ever wonder why experiencers report a spiritual uplift after an experience? Colonic irrigation for soul perhaps?

As to aspects that don't quite add up to a simple ETH for me...I would recommend reading 'Dimensions' by Dr Vallee. There are others but that book sums up nicely the problem with using the ETH only and why some think it's only a partial answer.
__________________

I will check it out.
Just so you are aware, my mind is not 100% made up about who or what we are dealing with, what ever it is, it has been mistaken and called many different thing's.
What I can tell you is that our reality is just like this subject....broader than people care to believe!

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by lee934

Try this? http://www.scientificexploration.org..._hollander.pdf

No weight loss but a transient weight gain.....that seems to put that silly notion to rest.
Wait a minute, they used animals....and we all know animals don't have...souls.
I guess they need to use humans next time.

[lee934]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

No weight loss but a transient weight gain.....that seems to put that silly notion to rest.
Wait a minute, they used animals....and we all know animals don't have...souls.
I guess they need to use humans next time.

If you read the article it does mention weight loss in human test subjects!

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by lee934

If you read the article it does mention weight loss in human test subjects!

I didn't see that in their exp which used only animals...the abstract clearly stated this. All other test on live people meditating etc were inconclusive.
The only human death reference was to the old 1906 tests which used old weight beams and not electronic and was probably an artifact

[lee934]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I didn't see that in their exp which used only animals...the abstract clearly stated this.

The full article mainly deals with animals yes but refers later to tests on humans where weight loss was measured using the same equipment and procedures as usedon the animal tests. I can see why Dee gets infuriated with you if you don't read articles fully!

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by lee934

The full article mainly deals with animals yes but refers later to tests on humans where weight loss was measured using the same equipment and procedures as usedon the animal tests. I can see why Dee gets infuriated with you if you don't read articles fully!

No you are wrong.....read it again. There was no significant weight loss because they did not use any dying humans in the modern testing. The only time this was ever recored were the old 1906 test which they stated in the article may have been due to a violent beam shift (a faulty artifact and not accurate.?)

[dr wu23]

Original:
Duncan MacDougall, in 1906, weighed six humans at the moment of death
using a beam balance scale. He reported an abrupt and permanent weight loss
at death of 11 to 21 grams (MacDougall, 1907a,b). He also measured 15 dogs
with a beam balance scale and found no change in weight. MacDougall describes
a violent and abrupt weight change. He had to readjust his beam balance
scale to compensate for the change. From his accounts the reader can be
sure something dramatic occurred at the moment of death. It is suggested here
that there may have been a weight transient that violently disturbed the beam

balance.

my words..(but was this genuine or due to error in old balance beams?)

Human Weight Measurements

Through the kind hospitality of Dr. Karlis Osis and Donna McCormick at
the American Psychical Laboratory in New York, two mediums were weighed
while attempting to levitate and go out of body. During the experiments on the
first subject three slight transient weight changes were observed, but they were
very small. With the second medium no transient weight changes were observed.
More recent measurements with Dr. Angela Thompson during remote
viewing sessions did not yield any unusual weight changes. Spontaneous transients
have been observed during dreams and meditation. Attempts to induce
these transients with audio and visual stimulation have not, thus far, been reproducible.
Children seem to be the best subjects. A fruitful area may be highly
stressed persons as reported by Dr. Blasband who found increased effects on
Random Event Generator output while the subjects were under stress (Blasband,
2000).

Conclusion:
There is no long-term weight change, at death, in the animals tested, within
the limits of the equipment and procedure used. However, a 5 second transient
weight gain of 18 to 780 grams was observed. Dynamic weight measurements
maybe a fruitful area for further investigation. Although the weight gain transients
have been observed spontaneously in humans, thus far they have not
been reproducible. In contrast, all the adult sheep exhibited a transient gain at
the moment of death. These transients may be an artifact of the equipment

used or may have a physiological explanation

[dr wu23]

The only way to verify any of this is to use dying humans and a large enough number to rule out error.

[lee934]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

The only way to verify any of this is to use dying humans and a large enough number to rule out error.

I guess the hippocratic oath prevents this? The weight gain in the sheep at the moment of death is very strange?

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by lee934

I guess the hippocratic oath prevents this? The weight gain in the sheep at the moment of death is very strange?

They said the weight gain was 'transient' which is even more strange.

But as to the human soul thing...why would souls have any weight at all..?