Alien Abductee Test's

[Miss Deetective]

Originally Posted by DrDil

Hi Dee,


I’ve researched (in-depth) Meier, his claims, his followers, people who contributed to his claims etc. etc. etc. I guess I just don’t see what you do…… (Or perhaps I do & I just gauge it differently).

Doesn’t mean either of us is right of course and I wouldn’t want to force my perspective (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, “Forced perspective�!! ) on to anyone so I guess it boils down to the subjective evaluation of the facts/claims and a long time ago (then again a couple of years back) I evaluated Meier’s data and in my opinion after it was weighed & measured I found it wanting and desperately lacking in credibility.


Cheers.

Hi DrDil,
Yes, I agree that it comes down to ones perception of Meier. There is much that rings true about him, imo. There are also things that have been done TO him that have hurt his credibility.....plus I think that anyone that has long term contact eventually stumbles.....human nature, imo.
For you, the scale tips on the side of lacking credibility....for me it tips on the opposite side!!!
As I have tried to say in some other posts just recently...sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct...mine tells me Meier is not a hoaxer or a phoney.

[Wilhelm]

Originally Posted by Miss Deetective

So why don't you and your buddy dispute and debate the message in my post instead of trying to shoot down the messenger???? Hmmmmm?????

Maybe you didn't notice, but what you posted was actually a defense of the multiverse theory. In most of the sections, there was a claim of "non-science" and then a rebuttal explaining why the specific claim was incorrect from well-known physicists, Max Tegmark of MIT, and Leonard Susskind of Stanford.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by DrDil

Meh!!

==============

"Human beings are under the control of a strange force that bends them in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception."
Dr. Jacques Vallee

==============

"The 'medical examination' to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscient of the medieval tales of encounters with demons. It makes no sense in a sophisticated or technical framework: any intelligent being equipped with the scientific marvels that UFOs possess would be in a position to achieve any of these alleged scientific objectives in a shorter time and with fewer risks."
Dr. Jacques Vallee

==============

"The symbolic display seen by the abductees is identical to the type of initiation ritual or astral voyage that is imbedded in the [occult] traditions of every culture...the structure of abduction stories is identical to that of occult initiation rituals...the UFO beings of today belong to the same class of manifestation as the [occult] entities that were described in centuries past."
Dr. Jacques Vallee (citing extensive research of Bertrand Meheust)
==============


Do you not think this Vallee fixation is a little unhealthy Wu?



Vallee long since abandoned his relevant UFO research and whilst there’s no denying he was a veritable pioneer back in the day his creative output seemed to wane along with his propensity for the ETH (early eighties-ish) and his recent foray into the (ahem) ‘paranormal’ via the intricacies of crop-circles being man-made (which I agree with), but not just man-made he then submitted that the military were creating them with –beam- weapons?

Come on Wu, even your intellectual eyebrows must have arched with that proposition which in my opinion still borders on pseudoscience, although no, on second thoughts it doesn’t border on pseudoscience, it positively exemplifies it.

I felt pretty much the same about Vallee a few years ago as you still do today, but his most recent crop-circle shenanigans are no better than what you so readily lambast Dee for due to the chink in her armour exposed via her weakness for the Meier cult.

In fact it’s probably worse as both you and I know that Vallee is perfectly capable of thinking not only outside of the box but also with a kind of inspired, coherent and rational thought-process that I used to be in awe of…..



Cheers.

Fixation..? Perhaps we should all just believe in alien hybrids..? Or underground labs where aliens operate on humans.. or where aliens steal souls......or that aliens make circles to communicate with us...or all the crazy crap on you tube videos that people keeep posting here as if it's relevant ..now those are fixations on crazy shite.
There is no one....no one who has done more research, talked to more witnesses, knows more players...and done more field work than Dr Vallee. He was there in the beginning. Who says he has abandoned his relevant research? And what does positing covert beam weapons regarding crop designs have to do with the paranormal? Almost every ufologist has commented on cc. and most probably think it's space brothers.
Pseudo science ?...please ck the ones I listed above....that's pseudo science. And believing in aliens almost religiously with little to no no evidence and then also claiming they make circles...that's pseudo science imo. And what shenanigans are you referring to ?..be specific
Instead suppose we should pay attention to crackpots like Hopkins..Jacobs...
Greer...Sallas...etc to explore this mystery for us. They couldn't find their collective arseholes with a flaslight. That's pseudoscience imo.

If Dr Vallee went semi crazy he would still have more relevance than the other morons in this 'field' who either think hybrids are taking over the planet , stealing our souls ,or some other moronic garbage.

And this is not a fixation on Vallee...imo he's just one of the very few with a brain who's involved in this circus of clowns we call the ufo enigma.

[Miss Deetective]

I hope Wikipedia is a good enough site to use!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/Fine-tuned_Universe
From that site:
" The fine-tuned Universe is the idea that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood.[1]
The existence and extent of fine-tuning in the universe is a matter of dispute in the scientific community. Proponents of fine-tuning include physicist Paul Davies who has stated "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life".[2] Other physicists such as Victor Stenger dispute fine-tuning, saying that even though "life as we know it would not exist if any one of several of the constants of physics were just slightly different, [we] cannot prove that some other form of life is feasible with a different set of constants. Anyone who insists that our form of life is the only one conceivable is making a claim based on no evidence and no theory."[3] Among scientists who find the evidence persuasive, a variety of scientific explanations have been proposed, e.g., the anthropic principle along with multiple universes. The idea has also attracted discussion among philosophers and theologians, as well as creationists and proponents of the Intelligent Design movement"
~~~~~~
Not all scientists agree about multiple universes.
There is no proof to back it up.
So, imo, untill there IS proof....it is only a theory and falls under the umbrella of speculation in regards to alien visitation.
Unless and until multiple universes can be proven, the ETH is more believable....imo.

[Wilhelm]

Evolution is just a theory too. So is gravity. Dark Matter, Black Holes, and like 95% of cosmology. Not to mention, there's plenty of science that has only been proven through mathematics, and not observation.

Until evolution from lower primate to humans can be proven, I'm stickin' with the Baby Jesus, and a 6,000 old Earth on this one.

Incidentally, did you think that UFOs were from distant galaxies before any extrasolar planets were discovered in 1988, or prior to that did you theorize that UFOs were from Venus?

And I'm not sure what that paragraph about the fine-tuned Universe has to do with anything. Care to explain?

[Mac 5]

Dr Wu wrote:

or that aliens make circles to communicate with us...or all the crazy crap on you tube videos that people keeep posting here as if it's relevant ..now those are fixations on crazy shite.

Thank's Dr Wu, I didn't know most of us had a fixation on crazy s***e.

[Miss Deetective]

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Evolution is just a theory too. So is gravity. Dark Matter, Black Holes, and like 95% of cosmology. Not to mention, there's plenty of science that has only been proven through mathematics, and not observation.

Until evolution from lower primate to humans can be proven, I'm stickin' with the Baby Jesus, and a 6,000 old Earth on this one.

Incidentally, did you think that UFOs were from distant galaxies before any extrasolar planets were discovered in 1988, or prior to that did you theorize that UFOs were from Venus?

And I'm not sure what that paragraph about the fine-tuned Universe has to do with anything. Care to explain?

No thank you, I'm done. I made my point and if you cannot or will not see it that's your problem....I prefer not to debate directly with you.

[DrDil]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Fixation..? Perhaps we should all just believe in alien hybrids..? Or underground labs where aliens operate on humans.. or where aliens steal souls......or that aliens make circles to communicate with us...or all the crazy crap on you tube videos that people keeep posting here as if it's relevant ..now those are fixations on crazy shite.
There is no one....no one who has done more research, talked to more witnesses, knows more players...and done more field work than Dr Vallee. He was there in the beginning. Who says he has abandoned his relevant research? And what does positing covert beam weapons regarding crop designs have to do with the paranormal? Almost every ufologist has commented on cc. and most probably think it's space brothers.
Pseudo science ?...please ck the ones I listed above....that's pseudo science. And believing in aliens with almost no evidence and then also claiming they make circles...that's pseudo science imo. And what shenanigans are you referring to ..be specific?
Instead we should pay attention to crackpots like Hopkins..Jacobs...
Greer...Sallas...etc to explore this mystery for us. They couldn't find their collective arseholes with a flaslight. That's pseudoscience imo.
If Dr Vallee went semi crazy he would still have more relevance than the other morons in this 'field' who either think hybrids are taking over the planet , stealing our souls ,or some other moronic garbage.

A little touchy, is that an Achilles heel there Wu?

Heh, heh, m’kay perhaps fixation was the wrong choice of words, how about ‘putting him on a pedestal’?

Also, what you’re proposing is a straw-man fallacy:

Straw man fallacy

One of the characteristics of a cogent refutation of an argument is that the argument one is refuting be represented fairly and accurately. To distort or misrepresent an argument one is trying to refute is called the straw man fallacy. It doesn't matter whether the misrepresentation or distortion is accidental and due to misunderstanding the argument or is intentional and aimed at making it easier to refute. Either way, one commits the straw man fallacy.

In other words, the attacker of a straw man argument is refuting a position of his own creation, not the position of someone else. The refutation may appear to be a good one to someone unfamiliar with the original argument.

No-where have I ever supported the proliferation of alien hybrids or even aliens come to that and as such I fail to see the relevance of Ufology’s lunatic fringe on my opinion of Vallee and his work in recent years.

Also, whilst you may not attribute crop circles to paranormal forces –I hope- you are well aware many others do and as a result of such the phenomenon has a distinctly paranormal slant, hence my use of ‘scare quotes’ around the term ‘paranormal’ as I certainly don’t endorse the use of the term but I acknowledge and accept that others do.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

And this is not a fixation on Vallee...imo he's just one of the very few with a brain who's involved in this circus of clowns we call the ufo enigma.

Ufology IS the circus as far as I’m concerned and as I’ve said many times this simply reinforces my belief that I’d rather be on the outside looking in than on the inside struggling to get out. simply offer commentary on what I observe within the circus of Ufology and share my opinion on this with anyone who cares to read my rambling prose, apparently -and as I suspected- for all our opinions mirror each others regarding the early years of Ufology and that there is no denying that Vallee was far more influential than he is credited for, it seems that they are in opposition regarding his recent work and beliefs. But to be fair I didn’t agree with everything he wrote prior to this but admittedly even those methodologies I didn’t always agree with I could still recognise their importance which coupled with his insight & vision lead to a respect for Vallee that I afford practically no other Ufologist.

So even though I don’t agree with his most recent theory it certainly doesn’t detract from what I think of him & his early work and to be honest I fail to see why my observation elicited such a terse reply…..


Cheers.

[DrDil]

As a humorous aside all this talk of pseudoscience reminded me of the following:

From this very funny video:

Cheers.

[bruce duensing]

Id rather have a potato explain evolution to me.