Alien Species A-Z

[Elara]

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

We would need to find at least one other planet where some form of life has arisen in order to maker even the sloppiest of guesses as to just how much life is out there.

I offer...
Fossil remains of microorganisms with non terrestrial origin:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...meteorite.html


This is not secret stuff

~Elara

[Wilhelm]

Heh, I should have specified extrasolar, because that's what I meant. For all we know, our system could share material all the time.

Also, not everyone buys ALH84001; There is criticism in the scientific community. As far as I'm concerned, it probably represents biological material from Mars, but it might not. Not only could it be earthly contamination (less likely), it may not even represent biological material (more likely).

[Elara]

heh, I should have specified extrasolar, because that's what I meant.

yeah, as soon as i typed my response, i said to myself.. he's gonna add a qualifier... touche' until we get out of the solar system, i have no samples or evidence to reference.. tsk tsk.. we should get on that... :-lol

Also, not everyone buys ALH84001; There is criticism in the scientific community.

hmm.. the same corners of the "scientific community" that pinky swear there is no global warming..?? idk educate me.. It seems pretty established, and impeccably credible... but enlighten me please... who is saying what exactly against the findings?

this is a quote from the nasa page, i provide the link again here:
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html
there are actually 3 indicators of non terrestrial life, this one in particular i have specific knowledge and understand of, although i can support the other 2 as well:

Another line of evidence involves unusual mineral phases found beside the PAHs. These carbonate minerals form "globules" about 50 micrometers across, some of which have cores containing manganese and rings of iron carbonate and iron sulfides, and also contain magnetite and pyrrhotite. These minerals bear strong resemblance to mineral alterations caused by primitive bacteria on Earth. This diversity of minerals in such a small area, formed under the presumed conditions, seem to make a non-biological origin unlikely.

I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Hazel Barton at the 2008 Rocky Mountain Speleoseminar, her work at Barton Lab at the University of Northern Kentucky has shown the geochemical properties of microbial communities performing the same processes here on earth. Rings of manganese can be found locked deep within rocks underground, indicating biological processes of the microbes as they digest some minerals and excrete unused material. The "mineral alterations" made in the ALH84001 sample are strikingly similar, near indistinguishable from those made by microorganisms here on earth (in earth.. technically).

there are other reasons, this being the strongest imo in support of the findings concerning ALH84001



~Elara

[Wilhelm]

http://www.astrobiology.com/adastra/its.dead.jim.html

Clearly, we have not completely satisfied all of the criteria needed for general acceptance of evidence for life in a sample.

And, more recently, in an article not at all critical of the Martian Life possibilty...

http://www.searchthenetnow.com/scien...fe/2010/06/25/

...we read this:

Now science is again considering the possibilty that ALH84001 is full of fossilized nano-ETs

and this, from a NASA exobiologist:

“ALH84001 is a really nice rock, full of lots of cool stuff about early Mars, but nothing in it points in the direction of life,” says David Blake, a NASA exobiologist who studied ALH84001 in the 1990s.

The scientific consensus on ALH84001 is essentially a question mark, a possibility.

[Elara]

Thanks for the links, i will read.
I am not familiar with david blake, but ty for the lead~ I'll read up.. if he was studying the rock in the 90's, let me just throw this out there in regards to Dr. Barton's work, here is a quote from the barton lab website:

We are collaborating with investigators from NASA and the Universidad Simon Bolivar, Caracas, Venezuela, to understand how microorganisms are able to survive in very starved caves in the quartzite caves of Venezuela. These caves are the best Earth-like environment for subsurface survival on Mars.

Her work is very very new to the scene, perhaps the most important expedition as far as data collection, occurred in 2007, so its relatively new on the scene, but verifiable and still being developed.
previously these processes were attributed to geology purely, now we see a new geobiology field emerging as micro biological processes are demonstrating geological changes

~Elara & now i read... ty for the links!

[Wilhelm]

Like I said, my personal guess is that it's fossilized bio material from Mars, but this thing is still very much an ongoing effort. My opinion doesn't make proof, though, and years go by in between people saying new things about ALH84001. The scales tip.

Honestly, the only real proof will come with a sample actually taken from Mars. At least to the satisfaction of the general scientific community.

[Elara]

yeah, as far as what you said about contamination earlier, interesting side note; Dr Barton and her team also take samples from NASA's "clean rooms" to determine if there are any traces of terran microorganisms, in an effort to prevent our contaminating mars with our probes.
*sigh* she's so cool n'junk lol:-lol

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Elara

No secret teachings

I'm just making reference to the basics

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

Its known as the Drake Equation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
There are several variations of the formula.

With the revelation that many more planets lie within the temperature ranges known to support life than previously believed, and the discovery on our own planet of extremophiles and even non carbon based life forms, the "stats" allow for the ETH to fit neatly into my belief system, or BS for short (hehe- -Robert Anton Wilson remarks that we all have our own BS--right? lol) :-lol


~Elara

I'm familiar with the Drake equation but as Wil pointed out it's speculation though I agree that there's probably many sentient species out there but sadly we have no real objective evidence (though eth fans will argue this) they are here or have come here. The ufo enigma remains an unknown.