About Vallee..

[VISITOR]

Originally Posted by Jurgen

Until one of those creatures ends up in a frying pan...

Trust you Jurgen to think of your belly.

[VISITOR]

Originally Posted by GunnerGraham

Or get dragged to their death in a pool, in the name of 'entertainment'.

Wasn't it " one of these creatures that did the dragging Gunner ?
If people didn't insist on keeping creatures like Whales and Dolphins etc in inappropriate enclosures for the entertainment of Humans then horrendous accidents like this wouldn't happen.

[bruce duensing]

The danger in all of this is more potentially attributable to ourselves in making premature conclusions as to the nature of this phenomenon. What drove Vallee was field work which amply demonstrated that there are physiological, psychological and physical effects on the observers and their immediate environment that led him to observe this phenomenon was incommensurable with any other.
Even the creaking retort of "it's just your imagination" and how that statement is framed as a value judgment or postulate in defense of the empirical doesn't carry water.I just posted a piece on the imagination and it's deeply embedded role in everyday life, and even the most rigid, died in the wool skeptic is deeply embedded in the "imaging" process. In other words, visualizing the impossible as a non verbal language. The King enters the room dressed to the nines in his ceremonial robes and trips over his cape.

http://materialintangible.blogspot.c...metaphors.html

There is nothing that exists outside of nature and yet while the general public has the impression that even the most elementary questions have been answered as to 1. What is life? 2, What is time? 3. What is sentience?, None of these, physicists well know have been answered, except by theoretical frameworks that are a part of the imagination or imaging process. What we have is a complex phenomenon that defeats our understanding of material behaviors as well as the nature of what the observer influences in all this. Like, similar to, analogies, metaphors are all the signets of this phenomenon depending on who is watching and who is being watched, if you will..our autonomic database of associations, the non verbal language of imaging all try to fit an incommensurable and experiential chaos into the maths of images and language as "close fits." All I can say, is buyer beware of what you are purchasing when it comes to a nice match or a good fit..as we can't hang clothing on a phenomenon we can only "sense" by it's effects... rather than it's origin.

http://jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/Va...avis-model.pdf

[GunnerGraham]

Originally Posted by VISITOR

Wasn't it " one of these creatures that did the dragging Gunner ?
If people didn't insist on keeping creatures like Whales and Dolphins etc in inappropriate enclosures for the entertainment of Humans then horrendous accidents like this wouldn't happen.

Must have crossed wires here VIS,
I hate that animals are kept in captivity.

[Carol Nistri]

Originally Posted by GunnerGraham

Must have crossed wires here VIS,
I hate that animals are kept in captivity.

Me too Visitor,I love the wildlife that comes to my backyard,tons and tons of turkeys and wild birds there free to come and go and thats the best of both worlds.

[GunnerGraham]

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

Me too Visitor,I love the wildlife that comes to my backyard,tons and tons of turkeys and wild birds there free to come and go and thats the best of both worlds.

That sounds lovely, Carol.
I'd love to live in the country,or beside the sea.
Concrete jungle makes me,feel like an animal in a cage sometimes

[Carol Nistri]

I think thats how you know how animals feel Gunner.Make it happen,move to the sea or the country,you can do it.

[DrDil]

Originally Posted by bruce duensing

The danger in all of this is more potentially attributable to ourselves in making premature conclusions as to the nature of this phenomenon. What drove Vallee was field work which amply demonstrated that there are physiological, psychological and physical effects on the observers and their immediate environment that led him to observe this phenomenon was incommensurable with any other.

<snip>

Hi Bruce & welcome to the forum!!

Do you feel that there could be any kind of physical reality to the phenomenon, other than what is perceived or produced by the observer?

Not just trace evidence but a real, solid, physical, tangible residue?

Cheers.



Edit: Whoops just realised you’ve been a member longer than myself…..

[bruce duensing]

Hi,
In what are considered to be persistent regional anomalies like "mystery lights" that seem to have high crystalline content geological deposits that may or may not be a link to transient atmospheric plasmas or piezeoelectric effects, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity, there have been equally persistent observer reports of these brilliant, high velocity , high frequency lights (contained within an unknown membrane), shedding material to the ground as it dissipates in brightness. The Bentwaters Case comes to mind. Was there residue found? Was it even searched for? The same situation has occurred with some, but far from all UAV reports.
From the Sturrock Panel Report is a typical case that occurred in Trans-en-Provence, France, on January 8, 1981 . Dr Vallee was involved in this particular case.

"A team from GEPAN/SEPRA carried out a site visit on February 17, 1981, 40 days after the event. The trace was still visible since there had been very little rainfall since January 8. The arc-shaped area, lighter than the rest of the terrain, was still visible. The soil in this region was heavily compacted, forming a crust. Soil samples were taken both on January 9 and on February 17. These samples were then forwarded to various laboratories equipped for physical and chemical analyses. It was found that the compacted soil had a thickness of 6-7 mm. There was no trace of organic compounds such as one might expect to be produced by combustion. There was some evidence of iron in the form of striations about 1 micron thick, but the iron was not accompanied by chromium, manganese or nickel as would be the case for steel. There was some evidence of polymers. Traces of phosphate and zinc were also found. Traces visible as striations seemed to have been produced by a combination of mechanical and thermal effects.

Visual and microscopic examination revealed that, apart from the striations, the soil had been compacted without major heating, since the structure of calcium carbonate was not affected. Velasco has made an order-of-magnitude estimate indicating that, to produce the measured compression of the soil, one would need a stationary object of about 700 kilograms. On the other hand, the same indentations in the soil could have been made by an object of lower mass if the object were moving at a few meters per second at the time of impact. "

We know that high purity magnesium samples have been analyzed that have been purported to be from some UAV incidents. The residue of powder like substances in several cases both here and in Europe, have been analyzed but the results have been inconclusive. All laboratory experiments have failed to reproduce anything but ridiculously transient effects ( in fractions of a second) that are anything like what is observed in the field. So, there a lot of tantalizing bits and pieces of the physicality of the phenomenon ( like luminosity to amplitude studies) as well as effects on cellular biology, but none have these have been correlated into a coherent theory. My interest is the the psychological, neurological and physiological end of the phenomenon as in mythologies, anthropology and sociology. I think there is a direct linkage to a third state of matter, between the classic wave and particle models, that is transient and requires certain preconditions to occur locally..much like a weather system which is self organizing to an extent...which I think is also linked to the nature of the mind, which science is just beginning to explore with quantum models , specifically the neural, pre-synaptic connections that are capable of a quantum state, which may be a gateway, if you will, to parallel experiential realities. It's all a fascinating business..which I honestly believe one day will be somewhat better understood.

[dr wu23]

Nice to see you here again Bruce,....as always your thoughtful posts open up many possibilities for us to think about.