About Vallee..

[Khtiraa]

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

Good post Khtriaa.Maybe just maybe this ED cant come here,not for any length of time it cant.It toys with mankind were the t.v. hit of the week,nothing more.IF ED is responsible for making so many believe with all their hearts that theve been abducted by aliens than shame on them say I.Frightening people for their own amusement.

That's it, because what other threat would a non-physical ED have on humans? Even if a non-physical ED could spend unlimited time in our dimension, is there any physical or material consequence? This is one aspect of the Vallee paradigm (doctrine?) that has failed to convince me. In the forward and beginning of Dimensions, he states that some intelligence has the ability to interact with us physically, but may not be physical by it's nature.
With ET interaction, there is a holistic relationship with the body and psyche of humans. There is a wide range of visceral and emotional interactions which are intimate in raw terms, while human victims are so horribly compromised and understandably humiliated. It simply may be that these humanoids have been in such a position of control for so long they simply lack any references to fear, pain and suffering.
This might be reckoned as a theoretical fact, particularly in terms of physics that is far beyond our present knowledge. The late Dr Mack heroically worked with alleged abductees for years. Mack's belief was that abduction cases with specific elements seemed more like spiritual visions with effects likened to a religious or mystical connection with the abductors referred to as the Grays. For this reasoning he was not willing to commit to a strictly ET causation.
But again, I see it as very logical to assume certain things about ETs that could involve the powerful effects described in many abduction experiences. And I really think from what I have studied, that researchers become trapped within the thought box of human experience that is literally limited to the history of visceral, perceptional parameters of the mind and body. Vallee, Dr Mack and all of the rest, must either attempt to push these transcendent experiences through a narrow category of human responses or create new ideas that surpass what can be related to human experience. Vallee has attempted to do this through his work on unexplained, non-physical intelligences he believes can interact with humans in ways that they perceive as physical. If true, this would be terrifying. How could anyone resist such a captivating power? And what would this mean for the human race if these mind intrusions were not limited to just a small selection of the human race?
My concept of the order of the cosmos tells me that if such entities exist to victimize us, there are others with equal or more authority to induce their own influences in a more wise, positive meddling. It would seem that wherever there is an intelligent, invisible intruder, then the cosmic balance would supply an intelligent contra-force to intervene on behalf of an opposing paradigm.
If not, then how could anything of value continue to proliferate or exist? But that concept is a whole subject unto itself.

[frontalobe]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Charles Fort used to say in his books that he thought 'we were someone elses property'...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fort

Precisely! British sf writer Eric Frank Russel elaborated on that idea in his novel SINISTER BARRIER! A must. (Hard to find).

http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Ru...r-Barrier.html

[Carol Nistri]

good post Khtriaa,thought provoking.We still have to wonder why,why the heck an entity would go thru all this bother,for what,whats their ultimate goal? Some abductees tell of being abducted since childhood,others say the entire family has been abducted for years on end.Yet,those that believe they have been abducted go to therapist to be hypnotized.Why? If you truely believe this has really happend to you why go to a therapist? Methinks that something nags at them about the entire experience,something isnt what it seems.Thats just a guess on my part of course and it may well be that the experience has driven them to want to talk to someone about it,but still what they do takes both time and money yet they feel compelled to find out just what it was that happend to them.

[roadghost]

Originally Posted by Khtiraa

My concept of the order of the cosmos tells me that if such entities exist to victimize us, there are others with equal or more authority to induce their own influences in a more wise, positive meddling. It would seem that wherever there is an intelligent, invisible intruder, then the cosmic balance would supply an intelligent contra-force to intervene on behalf of an opposing paradigm.
If not, then how could anything of value continue to proliferate or exist? But that concept is a whole subject unto itself.

I hope so because I find the idea of being property or playthings of these 'gods' way to unsettling. Then again, perhaps these beings are merely the dimensional equivilent of kids poking sticks into an anthill, not really sophisticated or significant in any meaningful way. It's so hard to even speculate on such a way out subject, there are so many layers of possibility. Suffice to say I share the opinion that there is an inclination towards balance operating somewhere, and hope some well meaning adult comes along to pull them away and scold them.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by frontalobe

Precisely! British sf writer Eric Frank Russel elaborated on that idea in his novel SINISTER BARRIER! A must. (Hard to find).

http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Ru...r-Barrier.html

I read that book about a year or so ago.....very interesting.

[frontalobe]

Originally Posted by Khtiraa

Vallee has attempted to do this through his work on unexplained, non-physical intelligences he believes can interact with humans in ways that they perceive as physical. If true, this would be terrifying. How could anyone resist such a captivating power? And what would this mean for the human race if these mind intrusions were not limited to just a small selection of the human race?
My concept of the order of the cosmos tells me that if such entities exist to victimize us, there are others with equal or more authority to induce their own influences in a more wise, positive meddling. It would seem that wherever there is an intelligent, invisible intruder, then the cosmic balance would supply an intelligent contra-force to intervene on behalf of an opposing paradigm.
If not, then how could anything of value continue to proliferate or exist? But that concept is a whole subject unto itself.

We might seriously reconsider the spiritual aspect of the phenomenon. Go back and read about the visible and invisible realm described in the Judeo Christian scriptures (old and new) - not to mention all the other sacred traditions of the world. Might humans be in a cosmic chessboard for a fight between two distinct superior instances? A fight that is not ours but in which we are involved, a struggle in which the only power we have is the spiritual choice between distinct moral attitudes (even if we fail on the material level). Vallée might be right in saying we are being manipulated, controlled, deceived or mislead but IMO we always have a choice. Even if it is not a material one. What if the negative, manipulative side of these entities is feeding on human emotions? That would partially explain the display of their intrusion in our reality to impress, disorientate and push us on the edge. Or to keep us occupied and away from more essential goals?
Just talking to myself, looking for alternatives, probably wrong. But how can we be sure of anything ?

[frontalobe]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I read that book about a year or so ago.....very interesting.

For me it was an eye opener! Eric Frank Russel (I have all his sf novels) was much more than a novel writer: he used sf to forward his own beliefs and intuition. Was a great admirer of Fort and a declared ennemy of Aleister Crowley.

[Khtiraa]

Originally Posted by frontalobe

We might seriously reconsider the spiritual aspect of the phenomenon. Go back and read about the visible and invisible realm described in the Judeo Christian scriptures (old and new) - not to mention all the other sacred traditions of the world. Might humans be in a cosmic chessboard for a fight between two distinct superior instances? A fight that is not ours but in which we are involved, a struggle in which the only power we have is the spiritual choice between distinct moral attitudes (even if we fail on the material level). Vallée might be right in saying we are being manipulated, controlled, deceived or mislead but IMO we always have a choice. Even if it is not a material one. What if the negative, manipulative side of these entities is feeding on human emotions? That would partially explain the display of their intrusion in our reality to impress, disorientate and push us on the edge. Or to keep us occupied and away from more essential goals?
Just talking to myself, looking for alternatives, probably wrong. But how can we be sure of anything ?

Oh, there is most definitely an unseen yet present influence that is both powerful and effective in manipulating humans to do harm to one another. I had a friend who went off on some kind of religious thing and when he returned, told me how he was pinned against the wall of his apartment with his feet several inches off the floor after performing some sort of ritual with his friend.My thinking is that there is a balance in which one act can be neutralized by another and that people have a potential that they are supposed to be developing in this life.

[Carol Nistri]

Originally Posted by frontalobe

We might seriously reconsider the spiritual aspect of the phenomenon. Go back and read about the visible and invisible realm described in the Judeo Christian scriptures (old and new) - not to mention all the other sacred traditions of the world. Might humans be in a cosmic chessboard for a fight between two distinct superior instances? A fight that is not ours but in which we are involved, a struggle in which the only power we have is the spiritual choice between distinct moral attitudes (even if we fail on the material level). Vallée might be right in saying we are being manipulated, controlled, deceived or mislead but IMO we always have a choice. Even if it is not a material one. What if the negative, manipulative side of these entities is feeding on human emotions? That would partially explain the display of their intrusion in our reality to impress, disorientate and push us on the edge. Or to keep us occupied and away from more essential goals?
Just talking to myself, looking for alternatives, probably wrong. But how can we be sure of anything ?

Ive thought along those lines myself,it didnt get me anywhere but maybe the idea is to divert our attention and to lay it all on this phenomenon.Maybe they get strength thru that.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by frontalobe

For me it was an eye opener! Eric Frank Russel (I have all his sf novels) was much more than a novel writer: he used sf to forward his own beliefs and intuition. Was a great admirer of Fort and a declared ennemy of Aleister Crowley.

A declared enemy of the Great Beast himself.........that's interesting.
I was not aware of that and I read that bio on Crowley that came out a few years back.
Speaking of old Al , he had several encounters with 'alien' entities-one that looked a little like the greys- during his infamous career.

This is off topic ,but what are your thoughts on AO Spare..?