Quran Burning: There Be Idiots Here

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Of course it will. They don't like the West because of the questionable actions of our Governments; religion is just the excuse. Or, as I pointed out, they'd have plenty of infidels to kill in their own countries if that were their main concern.

'

I think you are naive if you believe that.
Their faith is rooted in antiquated ignorance and disrespect for women and non believers and a non presence of western forces will never change that mentality.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by Darrell

orange:

Here is the point many miss: as long as the US is an occupier of Afghanistan, US laws prevail -- not Islamic laws.

Do you have any links indicating this, I googled and cannot find them. To be very precise, Afghanistan's highest law is the Constitution of Afghanistan, and the Stera Makhama (Supreme Court) is the highest legislative body, consisting of both Islamic and Secularly trained judges. With much needed help from America (the Taliban had the unfortunate habit of BURNING law texts ) since 2004 Afghanistan's lawmakers and government have gradually established Afghan law, constrained by the constitutional framework. Now if you're a US citizen travelling there, you are subject to Afghan laws, INCLUDING IT'S PENALTIES. (I'd advise anyone wishing to steal sumtin in Afghanistan to do it at most twice: once you run out of hands they'll look for other parts to cut off!!) American Department of Defense (civilian/military) personnel are accorded Diplomatic Immunity, as agreed to by the Afghan government. So American soldiers may only be prosecuted by the US.

Originally Posted by Darrell

Thus the afghans commited a crime against our soldiers which should be punishable in kind;

That's what I said, however in Afghanistan it is the Afghan laws they broke which matter. (I'm not at all sure Karzai wants to deal with this headache, so it may be down to NATO-forces pursuing the killers of the 6 service men as terrorists.)

Originally Posted by Darrell

AND, we committed NO CRIME in burning copies of the quran on grounds occupied by us.

Because Afghan law is a weird MIX of secular and Islamic law, many Muslims and even some judges do see crime here, considering Quran burning desecration and blasphemous.

Originally Posted by Darrell

The fact that we even recognize Islamic law in occupied territory is ridiculous.

Beats being at war with every Muslim traditionalist in Afghanistan (+ lots of sympathizers from Pakistan and Al Qaeda). Obama is trying to partner with Afghanistan and its people.


orangekea

[orangekea]

Talk about not helping the situation: early this Sunday morning local time a US soldier stationed at Kandahar left his base, and walking through pitch black night entered three separate homes, and apparently opened fire on the civilians inside. Estimates of injured are muddled, with ISAF saying 5 injured, and Afghan sources reporting 15-17 killed.

I am going to go with the Afghans for now, and assume up to 17 deaths.

The US explanation, apart from apprehending and investigating the perpetrator, is that he was having a mental breakdown. Rather lame imo, because even if true, Al Qaeda and the Taliban could claim they all were having a mental breakdown too, and for the same reason: if you see enough killing of compatriots and perceived injustice, get MAD enough, you simply may 'snap'. Right!

If this guy was no longer able to function, they should have taken away his gun, and order him to see a shrink or sumtin. That's the responsibility of his military employer.

The Afghan response can be expected to be (justified) outrage over these murders, inevitably including the loss of innocents. There's some hypocrisy as well, since the Islamist extremists have been deliberately sending out killers, taking the lives of random US service men, and for instance supposedly 'Christian' aid workers in that country. More grist for the mill of the Taliban hoping to fan the fires of America-hate. Again there are the silly requests by Afghan officials and citizens that the shooter be tried under Afghan law: Afghanistan has a binding agreement with the United States saying that Department of Defense personnel (both civilian & military) have diplomatic immunity, so only the US is permitted to prosecute them.

This seems like a mess getting worse by the day. The US want to leave Afghanistan by 2014, plus sign a long-term strategic agreement for the future. Difficult to get this right, when the people, army and police America tries to partner with increasingly feels they are the enemy.
Source


orangekea

[orangekea]

To add a wrinkle (with caveat that the investigation must now run its course) there are indications that the shooting rampage at Kandahar involved at least two shooters, which if confirmed means that the suspect in custody took the blame, covering for his team.

Speculatively this could have sinister repercussions on our understanding of these events. Afghan officials already noted separate houses were targeted. Could this soldier (and maybe his team) have been on a discrete rogue 'mission', motivated by revenge on specific members of the Taliban community, not mere psychosis?

Finally, the shooter reportedly was seen and videorecorded returning to base with his gun concealed/wrapped in a traditional Afghan shawl, which he then in sight of the guards put on the ground, and then raised his arms in surrender. How deliberate was this action (going in 'ninja', possibly teamwork, possibly covering for teammates, concealing his involvement in murder from the Afghans, surrendering to ensure prosecution in US)?
Source

It makes my blood run cold.


orangekea

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by orangekea

To add a wrinkle (with caveat that the investigation must now run its course) there are indications that the shooting rampage at Kandahar involved at least two shooters, which if confirmed means that the suspect in custody took the blame, covering for his team.

Speculatively this could have sinister repercussions on our understanding of these events. Afghan officials already noted separate houses were targeted. Could this soldier (and maybe his team) have been on a discrete rogue 'mission', motivated by revenge on specific members of the Taliban community, not mere psychosis?

Finally, the shooter reportedly was seen and videorecorded returning to base with his gun concealed/wrapped in a traditional Afghan shawl, which he then in sight of the guards put on the ground, and then raised his arms in surrender. How deliberate was this action (going in 'ninja', possibly teamwork, possibly covering for teammates, concealing his involvement in murder from the Afghans, surrendering to ensure prosecution in US)?
Source

It makes my blood run cold.


orangekea

This is the kind of thing that happens during war and related actions....don't try to over analyze it. A soldier who went a bit nuts or a 'mission'.....why does it really matter since both things are common.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

This is the kind of thing that happens during war and related actions....don't try to over analyze it. A soldier who went a bit nuts or a 'mission'.....why does it really matter since both things are common.

Did I by accident mention space aliens in previous post, doctor, to receive such a response? Did you click the link: the huffington article opens the (100% preliminary) possibility that the 16 civilian murders, including 9 women and 3 children, were committed by multiple assailants, selecting homes distant from one another (maybe four houses in two villages, stopping to incinerate victims, one of the theoretical team returning with weapon concealed turning himself in to US authorities, allowing remaining team to re-infiltrate the base and avoid prosecution. That would not be 'nuts', a little or a lot, but (smells like) hot premeditated vengeance/retribution of sorts.

I agree it happens during wars. But this act may endanger the lives of all ISAF and NATO forces, including many western civilians helping Afghans, and my countrymen, Dutch police trainers continuing their work in Kunduz. Obama doesn't need this, nobody in their right minds wants a repeat.

You can never "over analyse" such crimes.




orangekea

[Antrikshaadmi]

US soldiers also urinated on dead bodies. Smooth operators.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

why does it really matter since both things are common.

Yeah, American soldiers massacre unarmed civilians and slaughter children regularly.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Did I by accident mention space aliens in previous post, doctor, to receive such a response? Did you click the link: the huffington article opens the (100% preliminary) possibility that the 16 civilian murders, including 9 women and 3 children, were committed by multiple assailants, selecting homes distant from one another (maybe four houses in two villages, stopping to incinerate victims, one of the theoretical team returning with weapon concealed turning himself in to US authorities, allowing remaining team to re-infiltrate the base and avoid prosecution. That would not be 'nuts', a little or a lot, but (smells like) hot premeditated vengeance/retribution of sorts.

I agree it happens during wars. But this act may endanger the lives of all ISAF and NATO forces, including many western civilians helping Afghans, and my countrymen, Dutch police trainers continuing their work in Kunduz. Obama doesn't need this, nobody in their right minds wants a repeat.

You can never "over analyse" such crimes.




orangekea

If you don't like war then perhaps you should be protesting somewhere to end all wars on earth...because that's when these kinds of things will end.

[dr wu23]

US soldiers also urinated on dead bodies. Smooth operators. Yeah, American soldiers massacre unarmed civilians and slaughter children regularly

.

Bad things happen in wars........maybe you should go out protesting with orangekea....?

[Antrikshaadmi]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

.

Bad things happen in wars........maybe you should go out protesting with orangekea....?

Who the hell said I'm protesting? I'm just wondering what kind of idiots join the marines these days, which is hard to figure out because of how many different kinds of idiots there are.