Does Obama Care?

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

How odd...someone by another name posted the exact same thing on another ufo board....

How mysterious, what excitements the internet seems to offer!

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I guess I'll do the same.
-----------------------


What I hear is a lot of people complaining about Obama trying to bring healthcare to the people yet no one providing any real (better?) solutions.

Every government action affecting the life of its citizens should be intensively scrutinized. Call it complaining, or feed-back whatever: you really want to know whether PPACA is delivering, or whether it will fail. If the reasonable conclusion would be that it fails (by no means clear to me here!), smart people running your outfit will have to come up with the improved and all new version. It's what they're being payed the big bucks for, Wu.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

The system is badly broken (not the medical abilities) and healthcare costs will surely rise under any private market system and neither they nor the Republicons will help the people by trying to lower costs or broaden coverage since the capitalist idealogues think the market will take care of itself. Don't make me laugh.

For the US situation I'm beginning to agree totally. But The Netherlands is like a nature reserve where Democrats run wild. The hapless Republican (a nearly extinct species) trying to sneak across this meadow wilderness, just by softly scraping a shoe on the dirt, or causing the merest disturbance of the grasses, or sofly mentioning family values to a grazing cow, risks being torn limb from limb. Our 'Zorgverzekering' (=Dutch Obamacare) is well regulated, covering all, premiums paid by all. But it has turned out very expensive, with serious care quality problems.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I'm not a big fan of the bill he managed to get passed since even many Dems don't like it but the truth is the Republicons ain't going to do anything with the people in mind and at least the Dems seem to care about the people by trying to do something even if it's a half *** attempt.

Again our version of HC reform since 2000 has been well intentioned. We don't have Republicons (unless a handful marginalized ones). But there has been too little competition among insurers, or among care professionals, often tariffs go up(!) due to opportunism/greed. Sick family members of mine have had increased difficulty getting necessary access to medical specialists. Premiums (mandatory) paid to ensurers can get up to 30 times the benefits claimed. I'm not happy.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

IMO the private healthcare system needs to be regulated and this idea that the free market cannot be touched is bs since left alone they simply don't care about anything other than profits.

But choosing the right regulations is a bidge .

Originally Posted by dr wu23

In response to all those who claim a 'spiritual' course is needed in man's future is it even ethical to make billions from the sick and sufferring? Shouldn't health care truly be non profit or should we just continue to let the mega corps rape us all in the name of the almighty dollar?
Forget politics here....what is the right thing to do?

See you in heaven. (or: Et in Arcadia ego.)




orangekea

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

Does it even matter what vocalizations exit Obama's lips? It's just another set of campaign promises for him to break in assembly line fashion once he's in office. People are voting on which set of lies they like the most. Republican or Democrat, the president serves the international plutocracy.Yes, forget politics. And ethics. The wealthy have all the power, ethics is just a philosophy after all.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...ple-unethical/

You can't fill your bank account with philosophy. Don't forget to place the word God on the money people are killing each other over and dying from a lack of which overrides all philosophies including religion and ethics because you can't fill your bank account with philosophies. Don't forget to end your speeches filled with insidious lies and political promises you intend to break at the first opportunity with the words "God bless America". Most of all, don't forget to call yourself a Christian in the process.

Was there an actual point in there..?

Look..the bottom line is do you want to continue to be raped by private healthcare bandits or have some kind of social system eventually in place for all of us? Because imho it's a given that the capitalists behind big pharma and medicine only care about profits...and I know what I am talking about since I have an Optometric practice.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by orangekea

How mysterious, what excitements the internet seems to offer!




Every government action affecting the life of its citizens should be intensively scrutinized. Call it complaining, or feed-back whatever: you really want to know whether PPACA is delivering, or whether it will fail. If the reasonable conclusion would be that it fails (by no means clear to me here!), smart people running your outfit will have to come up with the improved and all new version. It's what they're being payed the big bucks for, Wu.




For the US situation I'm beginning to agree totally. But The Netherlands is like a nature reserve where Democrats run wild. The hapless Republican (a nearly extinct species) trying to sneak across this meadow wilderness, just by softly scraping a shoe on the dirt, or causing the merest disturbance of the grasses, or sofly mentioning family values to a grazing cow, risks being torn limb from limb. Our 'Zorgverkering' (=Dutch Obamacare) is well regulated, covering all, premiums paid by all. But it has turned out very expensive, with serious care quality problems.




Again our version of HC reform since 2000 has been well intentioned. We don't have Republicons (unless a handful marginalized ones). But there has been too little competition among insurers, or among care professionals, often tariffs go up(!) due to opportunism/greed. Sick family members of mine have had increased difficulty getting necessary access to medical specialists. Premiums (mandatory) paid to ensurers can get up to 30 times the benefits claimed. I'm not happy.

But choosing the right regulations is a bidge .
See you in heaven. (or: Et in Arcadia ego.)



orangekea

In the US bottom line is continuing to be raped by private healthcare pirates and many with no coverage or everyone covered under a national plan and pay more in taxes.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by Miss Deetective

I am not against socialized medicine....I think it could work just fine if done right.

Let's hope so, I'm willing to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt, certainly in the sense that it seems he's trying his damnedest to get an affordable system, covering as many Americans as possible, and giving them the medical access they need.

But he's getting very strong opposition, and large scale plans like these have a thousand ways to go wrong anyhow.


orangekea

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

Yes, but abolishing NAFTA and penalizing US companies that outsource jobs would put Americans back to work and fix the US economy. They'd be able to pay for medical insurance. Socialized heath care is an attempt to fix what wouldn't be a problem if the wealthy were not marginalizing the working class.

Are you sure your fix will be effective? Seems with a National Debt of $14 trillion there's no such thing as a quick fix.


orangekea

[spaceboy]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

Fixing the economy would make socialized health care a non-issue. Unfortunately, all the power is wielded by the wealthiest people who don't want to fix the economy because marginalizing the working class is insanely profitable and they're the ones who get to pull the strings on the politician marionettes.

"Fixing" the economy's been done.....it's just how our m@sters like it.....

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by spaceboy

"Fixing" the economy's been done.....it's just how our m@sters like it.....

So, Minnesota wolf child. How's reformed healthcare working for you then? Another 'fix' by the m@sters?

[dr wu23]

Orangekea,
I'm going to ask you again....why do you care? You don't live in America and in Europe it's all socialized so what's your problem here?
Are you one of those right wing Europeans that want to throw over the social systems ?

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Orangekea,
I'm going to ask you again....why do you care? You don't live in America and in Europe it's all socialized so what's your problem here?
Are you one of those right wing Europeans that want to throw over the social systems ?

Hahahahahahahaha, that/s sóóóó funny Wu, overthrow your social structure. How do you reckon I'm doing then, perhaps I can persuade part of the UFO community to rise up against Obamacare tyranny?!!!

Seriously I think of Americans as fellow citizens, fellow inheritors of democratic ideals (although on diverging cultural paths), part of the same grand social experiment believing humans may be treated as equal and free. Simply: I like Americans. I also like dogs, cats and horses, but I digress.

So when I talk to you (as I talk to Ozzies, Germans, Brits and Indians etc. etc.) I literally wish you well. Obamacare is worth looking into even from pure curiosity, but what strikes me is that at least since March 23, 2010 the US, ordinary people and politics, are wrestling with the same stuff I've been familiar with for more than a decade.

And I think I know some of the pitfalls of PPACA/Obamacare exactly because I'm living in a similar 'socialized' system.

For instance, we found it hard to make insurers, medical professionals and hospitals freely compete for clients and patients, supposedly lowering costs and fees, premiums. In the Netherlands often prices (medical services) go UP, driven by opportunism and greed.

At the same time, the intense effort to make treatment & presciptions cheaper, or 'efficient' seems to lower the quality and availability of care for everybody. (Although just about everyone is covered, and everone must buy the policies.)

Hope this clears it up for'ya, doc.


orangekea

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Hahahahahahahaha, that/s sóóóó funny Wu, overthrow your social structure. How do you reckon I'm doing then, perhaps I can persuade part of the UFO community to rise up against Obamacare tyranny?!!!

Seriously I think of Americans as fellow citizens, fellow inheritors of democratic ideals (although on diverging cultural paths), part of the same grand social experiment believing humans may be treated as equal and free. Simply: I like Americans. I also like dogs, cats and horses, but I digress.

So when I talk to you (as I talk to Ozzies, Germans, Brits and Indians etc. etc.) I literally wish you well. Obamacare is worth looking into even from pure curiosity, but what strikes me is that at least since March 23, 2010 the US, ordinary people and politics, are wrestling with the same stuff I've been familiar with for more than a decade.

And I think I know some of the pitfalls of PPACA/Obamacare exactly because I'm living in a similar 'socialized' system.

For instance, we found it hard to make insurers, medical professionals and hospitals freely compete for clients and patients, supposedly lowering costs and fees, premiums. In the Netherlands often prices (medical services) go UP, driven by opportunism and greed.

At the same time, the intense effort to make treatment & presciptions cheaper, or 'efficient' seems to lower the quality and availability of care for everybody. (Although just about everyone is covered, and everone must buy the policies.)

Hope this clears it up for'ya, doc.


orangekea

Doesn't really clear up anything for me. Are you for or against socialized medicine and if you are against it did you speak out against it in your country 10 years ago or longer when it came tp European countries?And do you have a better plan where private care doesn't rape and rob the people?
I'm all ears.