GOP vs Dems

**dr wu23** · 17th August 2012

I would like to hear why someone would vote for Romney and Ryan. What exactly are they going to do to solve an economic problem that has been growing for years regarding the middle class being screwed by the wealthy and Wall St? And I also wonder how Obama will solve these issues since it hasn't gone that well with him either. Even Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone, a lefty, has taken him to task for doing nothing about Wall St corruption and prosecuting no one and basically it continues with business as usual there. It would seem that even Obama has ties to the same corporate masters on Wall St just like the Republicans. If anyone is interested he has several good pieces in Stone written over the last 2 years.

But what has the GOP ever really done for the working classes anyway..? I'm not a historian nor political scientist but equal rights, minimun wage, unions to help workers, safety in the work place, social security, medicare....etc...weren't these basically liberal or Dem ideas which without the people would be even more effed than they already are? Please correct me and I know someone here will, but what have the GOP ever done other than harp about lowering taxes which mostly helps the rich?
I want the conservatives here to make me a believer about Republicans. Exactly how are they for the people..?

**ChrisPerridas** · 17th August 2012

Dr Wu, you are eloquent in your questions. Unfortunately none of what you propose will be what determines the election. My first choice was Hillary Clinton - maybe that will get the fur flying in rebuttals. Heh.

Unless something changes, I suppose I will hold my nose and vote for Romney. Ryan is irrelevant as all vice presidents are - barring a fate I prefer not to discuss. As a Kentuckian, I am one of those that refuses to accept a second term for Obama. The feeling is very mutual. It is highly unlikely he will come to Kentucky, and if he does the democratic governor will be conveniently absent once again. Obama may expectorate on Kentucky as he flies to the much more valuable Ohio, and on our two senators. The only person they each despise more than Obama, are each other.

Those on the left have no choice but to stay home or vote for Obama. Those on the right must vote for Romney. They will not decide the election. Those nice normal people who reside in the middle and do not consider politics much at all will eventually, several days before the election, decide if they will vote. If they do, they will be disgusted with the ads, ask their close friends and family what they think, and collectively swing the election.

If trends hold, the candidates will know who will lose a few days or hours before we will. It will be another close election - unless someone does or says something stupid like cry on television or ride a tank in a parade or flaunt a mistress.

Not one bit of this will be part of a well thought out mental process of what is good or bad for me, for you, for the country, or the world. It will be a very emotional reaction, and a lot of that will be who will spend toward the first billion dollars the fastest to get elected. That money does not influence you, it produces sound bites and myths that influence those who influence you: Your friends and family.

**Darrell** · 17th August 2012

Pat Paulson for president! ("If nominated, I will not run; if elected I will not serve!")

**Antrikshaadmi** · 17th August 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Even Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone, a lefty, has taken him to task for doing nothing about Wall St corruption and prosecuting no one and basically it continues with business as usual there. It would seem that even Obama has ties to the same corporate masters on Wall St just like the Republicans.

Which is why I stated that the two party system has been scraping the bottom of the barrel of human dregs to find candidates willing to collaborate with their corrupt agendas since Bush Sr., the only winning move in the GOP vs. Dems game is not to play.

**ChrisPerridas** · 17th August 2012

Well bop my bippy, I remember that!

And I think I recall a Spiro Agnew watch, and Agnew who famously said, "nattering nabobs of negativity". I always wondered if Stan Friedman was paraphrasing it when he says, "nasty noisy negatavists".

(I looked it up, it's attributed to speech writer William Safire - 'cause it seems that Agnew would not come up with it. )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell

Pat Paulson for president! ("If nominated, I will not run; if elected I will not serve!")

**dr wu23** · 18th August 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisPerridas

Dr Wu, you are eloquent in your questions. Unfortunately none of what you propose will be what determines the election. My first choice was Hillary Clinton - maybe that will get the fur flying in rebuttals. Heh.

Unless something changes, I suppose I will hold my nose and vote for Romney. Ryan is irrelevant as all vice presidents are - barring a fate I prefer not to discuss. As a Kentuckian, I am one of those that refuses to accept a second term for Obama. The feeling is very mutual. It is highly unlikely he will come to Kentucky, and if he does the democratic governor will be conveniently absent once again. Obama may expectorate on Kentucky as he flies to the much more valuable Ohio, and on our two senators. The only person they each despise more than Obama, are each other.

Those on the left have no choice but to stay home or vote for Obama. Those on the right must vote for Romney. They will not decide the election. Those nice normal people who reside in the middle and do not consider politics much at all will eventually, several days before the election, decide if they will vote. If they do, they will be disgusted with the ads, ask their close friends and family what they think, and collectively swing the election.

If trends hold, the candidates will know who will lose a few days or hours before we will. It will be another close election - unless someone does or says something stupid like cry on television or ride a tank in a parade or flaunt a mistress.

Not one bit of this will be part of a well thought out mental process of what is good or bad for me, for you, for the country, or the world. It will be a very emotional reaction, and a lot of that will be who will spend toward the first billion dollars the fastest to get elected. That money does not influence you, it produces sound bites and myths that influence those who influence you: Your friends and family.

Nothing there that convinces me I should vote Republican.....you didn't even try to explain how the GOP has ever helped the middle class, not to mention the poor people, .... yet you will vote for them anyway?

**ChrisPerridas** · 18th August 2012

Because I am not the one to convince anyone. I am not sure you can be convinced, and I am not sure you should be convinced. Take a deep breath and vote your conscience, and it will all work out somehow.

Years ago I spent time working in my local election process. Tip O'Neil once said all politics is local, and he was right. Look at your local people, and meet them, and listen to them, and write to them, and that is the way to get change. Or at least get a street light where you want it.

But I think there have been good and kind and honorable republicans such as Ike, Gerald Ford and Everitt Dirkson. There have been weird democrats. I was not a Nixon fan but he spent more money on the middle class people than Lyndon Johnson did in his Great Society. George Bush Sr signed the ADA act - that helped millions. It's not always either/or, things happen good and bad with every party.

I used to be a rubber stamp democrat, and am still registered democratic. My family would raise up from the dead and scratch my eyes out if I switched parties, but I have voted for Republicans if I thought they were the lesser of two evils.

I just don't see magic in Obama's rhetoric, and I don't particularly like him as a person. The wrong person won in 2008, but she is out saving the world right now, and one day she'll be a billionaire. So maybe Hillary won after all. It is a crime that Colin Powell wasn't the first black president. I'd have voted twice for him. I got to hear him speak twice, and he is the funniest guy in person. But there's history for you. Life ain't always fair.

**Darrell** · 18th August 2012

IMHO. McCain would have won in 2008 had he not picked such a poor choice of VP candidate. I feel that Romney has done the same. Now every social security and medicare participant will be out supporting Obama in order to save their only financial means of surviving.

**ChrisPerridas** · 18th August 2012

I've read so many presidential books, and campaign history - I can't tell you why one person wins and not another. Quayle didn't hurt Bush I's first election. A different Veep in 1992 wouldn't have helped him. Was it Kennedy's makeup in 1960? Was Blaine robbed in 1884? Was Gore robbed in 2000? Should Gerald Ford have won instead of the peanut farmer? Who knows? Americans are fickle, and spontaneous, and this one probably will go down to the wire.

Here's an example. I have a close Jewish colleague at work who hates Obama's stand on the Palestinians. He is voting for Obama. Period, end of story. So, I don't know that one position on issues vs. another makes a big difference. The deciding factor for those in the middle swing votes is what your peers, close friends and family think, and how you react to what they think.

**Antrikshaadmi** · 18th August 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell

IMHO. McCain would have won in 2008 had he not picked such a poor choice of VP candidate. I feel that Romney has done the same. Now every social security and medicare participant will be out supporting Obama in order to save their only financial means of surviving.

Ryan as the economist in an administration picking up exactly where George W. Bush left off is every Republican's wet dream. The middle class, poor and the elderly need to make suicide preparations just in case. You can never be too prepared.

Quote:

"I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can't answer your question." ~ George W. Bush

"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe -- I believe what I believe is right." ~ George W. Bush

17th August 2012	#1
dr wu23 Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,641 Rep Power: 3320	GOP vs Dems I would like to hear why someone would vote for Romney and Ryan. What exactly are they going to do to solve an economic problem that has been growing for years regarding the middle class being screwed by the wealthy and Wall St? And I also wonder how Obama will solve these issues since it hasn't gone that well with him either. Even Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone, a lefty, has taken him to task for doing nothing about Wall St corruption and prosecuting no one and basically it continues with business as usual there. It would seem that even Obama has ties to the same corporate masters on Wall St just like the Republicans. If anyone is interested he has several good pieces in Stone written over the last 2 years. But what has the GOP ever really done for the working classes anyway..? I'm not a historian nor political scientist but equal rights, minimun wage, unions to help workers, safety in the work place, social security, medicare....etc...weren't these basically liberal or Dem ideas which without the people would be even more effed than they already are? Please correct me and I know someone here will, but what have the GOP ever done other than harp about lowering taxes which mostly helps the rich? I want the conservatives here to make me a believer about Republicans. Exactly how are they for the people..? __________________ "If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't." -Emerson Pugh

17th August 2012	#2
ChrisPerridas Agent Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Age: 56 Posts: 1,702 Rep Power: 1350	GOP vs Dems Dr Wu, you are eloquent in your questions. Unfortunately none of what you propose will be what determines the election. My first choice was Hillary Clinton - maybe that will get the fur flying in rebuttals. Heh. Unless something changes, I suppose I will hold my nose and vote for Romney. Ryan is irrelevant as all vice presidents are - barring a fate I prefer not to discuss. As a Kentuckian, I am one of those that refuses to accept a second term for Obama. The feeling is very mutual. It is highly unlikely he will come to Kentucky, and if he does the democratic governor will be conveniently absent once again. Obama may expectorate on Kentucky as he flies to the much more valuable Ohio, and on our two senators. The only person they each despise more than Obama, are each other. Those on the left have no choice but to stay home or vote for Obama. Those on the right must vote for Romney. They will not decide the election. Those nice normal people who reside in the middle and do not consider politics much at all will eventually, several days before the election, decide if they will vote. If they do, they will be disgusted with the ads, ask their close friends and family what they think, and collectively swing the election. If trends hold, the candidates will know who will lose a few days or hours before we will. It will be another close election - unless someone does or says something stupid like cry on television or ride a tank in a parade or flaunt a mistress. Not one bit of this will be part of a well thought out mental process of what is good or bad for me, for you, for the country, or the world. It will be a very emotional reaction, and a lot of that will be who will spend toward the first billion dollars the fastest to get elected. That money does not influence you, it produces sound bites and myths that influence those who influence you: Your friends and family.

17th August 2012	#3
Darrell explorer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: new hampshire Age: 69 Posts: 2,268 Rep Power: 5118	GOP vs Dems Pat Paulson for president! ("If nominated, I will not run; if elected I will not serve!") __________________

18th August 2012	#7
ChrisPerridas Agent Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Age: 56 Posts: 1,702 Rep Power: 1350	GOP vs Dems Because I am not the one to convince anyone. I am not sure you can be convinced, and I am not sure you should be convinced. Take a deep breath and vote your conscience, and it will all work out somehow. Years ago I spent time working in my local election process. Tip O'Neil once said all politics is local, and he was right. Look at your local people, and meet them, and listen to them, and write to them, and that is the way to get change. Or at least get a street light where you want it. But I think there have been good and kind and honorable republicans such as Ike, Gerald Ford and Everitt Dirkson. There have been weird democrats. I was not a Nixon fan but he spent more money on the middle class people than Lyndon Johnson did in his Great Society. George Bush Sr signed the ADA act - that helped millions. It's not always either/or, things happen good and bad with every party. I used to be a rubber stamp democrat, and am still registered democratic. My family would raise up from the dead and scratch my eyes out if I switched parties, but I have voted for Republicans if I thought they were the lesser of two evils. I just don't see magic in Obama's rhetoric, and I don't particularly like him as a person. The wrong person won in 2008, but she is out saving the world right now, and one day she'll be a billionaire. So maybe Hillary won after all. It is a crime that Colin Powell wasn't the first black president. I'd have voted twice for him. I got to hear him speak twice, and he is the funniest guy in person. But there's history for you. Life ain't always fair.

18th August 2012	#8
Darrell explorer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: new hampshire Age: 69 Posts: 2,268 Rep Power: 5118	GOP vs Dems IMHO. McCain would have won in 2008 had he not picked such a poor choice of VP candidate. I feel that Romney has done the same. Now every social security and medicare participant will be out supporting Obama in order to save their only financial means of surviving. __________________

18th August 2012	#9
ChrisPerridas Agent Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Age: 56 Posts: 1,702 Rep Power: 1350	GOP vs Dems I've read so many presidential books, and campaign history - I can't tell you why one person wins and not another. Quayle didn't hurt Bush I's first election. A different Veep in 1992 wouldn't have helped him. Was it Kennedy's makeup in 1960? Was Blaine robbed in 1884? Was Gore robbed in 2000? Should Gerald Ford have won instead of the peanut farmer? Who knows? Americans are fickle, and spontaneous, and this one probably will go down to the wire. Here's an example. I have a close Jewish colleague at work who hates Obama's stand on the Palestinians. He is voting for Obama. Period, end of story. So, I don't know that one position on issues vs. another makes a big difference. The deciding factor for those in the middle swing votes is what your peers, close friends and family think, and how you react to what they think.