Dr Vallee on UFOS

[dr wu23]

8 minute interview

[ChrisPerridas]

I'll watch this tomorrow. I have a question.

I read page 99 after you posted. Then I started jumping about and ended up on page 105, the Mrs. Jean Kirk case. In a certain part he mentions extraordinarily tall weeds, with no explanation. However, something stuck with me. The washing machine emptied in the yard nearby. If Kirk washed with a phosphate detergent, and dumped on the ground, the weeds would have went nuts. My grandparents lived in Lebanon Junction, Ky, and they were in a rural area and had extra land. they had a septic tank, but often the washing machine liquid emptied into the yard. Sometimes the sewage would also. In that area, the weeds went nuts. Also some blackberry bushes "down stream" so to speak, grew well.

I'm guessing the Kirks, in 1973, had either rabbit ears or an antennae. Either way, static is common. AM radio, the usual 1973 conveyance of a ball game, is terrible with static in a storm. Or an airplane flyign over, especially a propeller job. I still get issues with my AM radio, or with the over the air reception, as I live near the airport.

But what do you think about phosphates in the soil? It's a stretch, but I wonder if Vallee did check that out closely? I can't fully recall the ban of phosphate, but Indiana did so in 1970. I think I remember California did not long after that. 1979 would be about right for it to leave the soil.


McMinnville (1950)

Dr Wu wrote:
Confrontations by Vallee: hb, page 99-100 " My own private conjecture , which deviates considerably from the accepted dogma among ufo believers , is that we are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness independent of man but closely linked to the earth. ..."

[Carol Nistri]

I love Vallee,hes a gentle thinking man.Mishlove and his series Thinking Allowed was one of my very favorites.

[ChrisPerridas]

1. So one interpretation of Vallee's idea is that a collective sentient entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish. (He mentions the submarine and a holographic message, for instance, as a metaphor).

2. Another interpretation of what he believes is that we may have projected by the power of our mind that a collective entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish - but of course it is all a mental construct by us. It is only real to the person that believes this.

1. (Something) >>> ( acts upon ) (Me).

2. (Something) <<< (is created by) (Me)

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by ChrisPerridas

I'll watch this tomorrow. I have a question.

I read page 99 after you posted. Then I started jumping about and ended up on page 105, the Mrs. Jean Kirk case. In a certain part he mentions extraordinarily tall weeds, with no explanation. However, something stuck with me. The washing machine emptied in the yard nearby. If Kirk washed with a phosphate detergent, and dumped on the ground, the weeds would have went nuts. My grandparents lived in Lebanon Junction, Ky, and they were in a rural area and had extra land. they had a septic tank, but often the washing machine liquid emptied into the yard. Sometimes the sewage would also. In that area, the weeds went nuts. Also some blackberry bushes "down stream" so to speak, grew well.

I'm guessing the Kirks, in 1973, had either rabbit ears or an antennae. Either way, static is common. AM radio, the usual 1973 conveyance of a ball game, is terrible with static in a storm. Or an airplane flyign over, especially a propeller job. I still get issues with my AM radio, or with the over the air reception, as I live near the airport.

But what do you think about phosphates in the soil? It's a stretch, but I wonder if Vallee did check that out closely? I can't fully recall the ban of phosphate, but Indiana did so in 1970. I think I remember California did not long after that. 1979 would be about right for it to leave the soil.


McMinnville (1950)

Dr Wu wrote:
Confrontations by Vallee: hb, page 99-100 " My own private conjecture , which deviates considerably from the accepted dogma among ufo believers , is that we are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness independent of man but closely linked to the earth. ..."

Not sure of the weeds significance in the overall scheme of things.
The point...?

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by ChrisPerridas

1. So one interpretation of Vallee's idea is that a collective sentient entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish. (He mentions the submarine and a holographic message, for instance, as a metaphor).

2. Another interpretation of what he believes is that we may have projected by the power of our mind that a collective entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish - but of course it is all a mental construct by us. It is only real to the person that believes this.

1. (Something) >>> ( acts upon ) (Me).

2. (Something) <<< (is created by) (Me)

I think that statement of his is fairly clear....beyond that it's another hypothesis that may or may not be able to be tested. I think it's a valid avenue of investigation when one looks at the overall enigma over the years and it's alleged aspects. My concern is that too many people in the ufo arena only want to look at one idea and are missing other issues involved as we both have pointed out.

[NonSmokingman]

Good link dr.wu.

Vallee is a smart and intelligent man.

i agree with vallee you can`t deny the existence of flying object at 19th century and explain them with conventional aircrafts. The Phenomena is real

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by NonSmokingman

Good link dr.wu.

Vallee is a smart and intelligent man.

i agree with vallee you can`t deny the existence of flying object at 19th century and explain them with conventional aircrafts. The Phenomena is real

The Phenomenon is real but let's not assume it's only/simply ET. As Vallee mentioned there are other possibilities and after years of research and field investigations he tends to think that the ETH doesn't cover all the cases well.

[ChrisPerridas]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Not sure of the weeds significance in the overall scheme of things.
The point...?

I think Vallee used this as another piece of esoterica to drive home that paranormal phenomenon and its physicality comes in many forms. The weeds here, growing enormous, coincides with the visitation in his opinion. He follows this with an Italian rust color where only moss grows later. His meaning could not be clearer. Botanical esoterica is also proof of - something - something apparently unknown and unknowable about aliens.

One criticism that has been leveled at Vallee is that while he sometimes used other friends to help investigate, he abrogated the rules of science by working mostly independently. Therefore he had little peer review, and few checks and balances.

My counterpoint is that phosphate detergent run off from the washing machine could have explained part of the weed issue. I also imply that there may have been matrixing going on by conflating "weird weeds, "blowing trees", "radio static", "blanked-out television screen", and a few other things. It could as easily been a Wendigo (Algernon Blackwood reference), and interestingly, Grant Wilson has reported that his most defining mystery was the appearance of an "alien creature" who followed him as a young boy, and paranormal tree blowing was a part of this experience.

The Italian grass could have been an outbreak of grass rust (a disease) that is ofen followed by having a patchy lawn where only moss grows. Another bit of matrixing connecting it to a UFO. There is a common ghost story that explains that grass never grows in a supernaturally disturbed piece of earth. This has been countered that a legendary area such as this is often visited by legend trippers who then stamp the earth so often grass will not grow there. Early settlers realized that violets grew in enormous patches, and later it was discovered these were buffalo wallows. The crushed dirt mixed with the debris from the buffalo hides was perfect for violet growth. So, mundane as well as esoteric reasons for botanical events.

There are always points and counter-points, myth and deconstruction, and scientific investigators are supposed to allow for vetting of their theories by other investigators.

Well everywhere but in ufology where investigators build a fence around their territory and defend it with a shotgun lest anyone trespass.

_edit

I found Grant Wilson's first paranormal event online below link, first few pages. He states it as a paranormal event, but could it be considered an alien contact as well by ufologists?

http://www.amazon.com/Seeking-Spirit...s=grant+wilson

[Carol Nistri]

Originally Posted by ChrisPerridas

1. So one interpretation of Vallee's idea is that a collective sentient entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish. (He mentions the submarine and a holographic message, for instance, as a metaphor).

2. Another interpretation of what he believes is that we may have projected by the power of our mind that a collective entity has the ability to make us think and believe anything they wish - but of course it is all a mental construct by us. It is only real to the person that believes this.

1. (Something) >>> ( acts upon ) (Me).

2. (Something) <<< (is created by) (Me)

Chris in Dolans book Ufos and the National Security he tells the story of a pilot sent up to chase off a ufo,that pilot thought he was returning to base,he wasnt,what he saw as land was actually water he was made to think it was land but he was actually flying out to sea.This and this alone has stuck in my mind having read that book.This and this alone tells me were dealing with a very manevolent entity.Had ground control not convinced the pilot to turn his plane around and follow their instructions he would have flown out to sea and crashed.Therefore these entities didnt hurt him but they did put the idea that he was flying over land when all the time it wasnt the truth.That being able to control the mind of man has me thinking there not aliens from another planet at all.