Dr.Wu this is for you..

**Carol Nistri** · 17th January 2013

'Do Your Homework Before Entering UFO Fray', page 4

Great post as usual Karl12

I been spending these last few weeks reading the whole FSR (flying saucer review) magazine pdf files from the 1950s up to 1980s now.. its amazing how the phenomena works all these years. in my opinion its not a nuts n bolt alien but something more sinister. Those with religion know what im talking about, those who dont believe in God or anything spiritual will have some difficulty explaining the massive amount of case materials all freely available on the net.

THere are some that may be added to your list

- To be a serious UFO researcher you have to learn Occultism and its history (i think john keel said this)
- you have to do a field work for UFO cases (interview, site visit etc) instead of sitting in your home reading books/internet stuff (i think jaques vallee said this)
- Be prepared to encounter 'high strangeness' when you are deep into UFO research. Better be protected spiritually. (i forgot who said this)
- if the UFO investigator a sensitive (have a kind of 6th sense) then you must be prepared spiritually before entering UFO research as historically a 'sensitive' person are usually the entitiy's target/victim for deception
- The entity behind the UFO phenomena is similar to what the old 'spirit medium' encounter in their session. Liars and Tricksters

While all the scientific research is important for cataloging physical traces of the phenomena, i also suggest all research dont limit itself to just 'science'. there are lot of things thats beyond current understanding , and there are things that cannot be explained by material science.

a little example, while we are driving on a jungle road at night , wilderness all around us , driving from plantation to plantation with no population in between, what can explain a lady wearing white standing alone beside the road ?

a real scientist dont work and judge from a desk , a real scientist will do field work to prove/disprove..</B>

reply posted on 8-12-2012 @ 02:22 AM by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by Brighter

No. The "Cheshire Cat Effect" properties of UFOs that Hynek was referring to are the exact properties that would lead one to abandon the ETH in favor of something like IDH/EDH.

In fact, all of the points against the ETH that he brought up in "The Case Against E.T." are what lead people to favor things like IDH/EDH.

So you're saying people favor the IDH/EDH over the ETH? If you are, I don't think that's completely true. Using this forum as an example of what people believe, more people on this forum still share the ETH. Which makes sense since a majority of UFO reports claim that an object with 3-dimensional properties moves across the sky, performs strange movements and speeds off. You don't find many reports claiming an object materializes and de-materializes in front of their eyes. If you disagree, lead me to those equally numbered cases. But, going with this IDH/EDH, that would be the optimum way for these "UFOs" go unnoticed, as they apparently attempt to do, wouldn't it? Zap into the 3rd-dimension, zap out. No need to fly off. But, the funny thing is, most of the claims have them jet off in one direction or another. No vanishing into thin air. It's ridiculous. All of these hypothesis have far too many holes in them to be taken seriously.... How does one prove the IDH/EDH? It would be practically impossible... What about Roswell? You would think if there was an objective to not be seen, they would have been pulled back to their other dimension. The supposed alive alien? He just zaps back over and is gone. IDH/EDH is just as ridiculous of a suggestion as the ETH. The entire alien belief is complete fantasy with the given hypotheses not even able to hold up to anything realistic. It's just graping at straws for those intent on this superior alien race answer. Hynek quote of "Putting the cart before the horse" works perfectly.

I know that you want to think that Hynek abandoned the idea that aliens were controlling these craft, but you can't conclude this from the quotes that you are referencing that he made in his later years. All that you can conclude is that:

1) His focus shifted to an interest in the study of UFOs as opposed to questions regarding their origin.

and

2) He brought up some counterarguments to the ETH.

In neither 1) nor 2) do you see Hynek saying that he no longer believes that aliens could be controlling these craft. What you do see is someone who is more interested in raising the social perception of Ufology by turning the focus to the scientific study of what these craft are, as opposed to what might be controlling them.

I don't think he did, it's exactly what he said. He didn't just state to focus your attention away from the ETH only to the objects themselves. That would be up for interpretation as to exactly what he meant. But, he gave point by point reasons why the ETH didn't make sense. He went further stating his last point can't be argued in favor of the ETH. How can you not understand that as Hynek abandoning the hypothesis? For the sake of your own argument, I can see why you continue to hold on to this assumption, but, in reality he clearly had changed his views.</B>

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**dr wu23** · 18th January 2013

Thanks Carol, interesting reading .......as was pointed out there are many aspects to the overall ufo enigma that defy a simple ET explanation which is why after many years people like Hynek and Vallee looked to alternate ideas.

**Carol Nistri** · 18th January 2013

I remember quite clearly being angry reading Vallee for the first time.I didnt understand how this brilliant man couldnt wrap his mind around ET coming here.Its taking me all this time to even consider other possibilities,but ET is a Liar.

**dr wu23** · 18th January 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

I remember quite clearly being angry reading Vallee for the first time.I didnt understand how this brilliant man couldnt wrap his mind around ET coming here.Its taking me all this time to even consider other possibilities,but ET is a Liar.

I would say that the 'entities' or the 'intelligence' involved in the high strangeness and abduction cases is deceptive and falls into what some have called the Trickster model.
I won't completely rule out the possibility that some ufos are ET.

17th January 2013	#1
Carol Nistri Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 16,801 Rep Power: 6403	Dr.Wu this is for you.. 'Do Your Homework Before Entering UFO Fray', page 4 Great post as usual Karl12 I been spending these last few weeks reading the whole FSR (flying saucer review) magazine pdf files from the 1950s up to 1980s now.. its amazing how the phenomena works all these years. in my opinion its not a nuts n bolt alien but something more sinister. Those with religion know what im talking about, those who dont believe in God or anything spiritual will have some difficulty explaining the massive amount of case materials all freely available on the net. THere are some that may be added to your list - To be a serious UFO researcher you have to learn Occultism and its history (i think john keel said this) - you have to do a field work for UFO cases (interview, site visit etc) instead of sitting in your home reading books/internet stuff (i think jaques vallee said this) - Be prepared to encounter 'high strangeness' when you are deep into UFO research. Better be protected spiritually. (i forgot who said this) - if the UFO investigator a sensitive (have a kind of 6th sense) then you must be prepared spiritually before entering UFO research as historically a 'sensitive' person are usually the entitiy's target/victim for deception - The entity behind the UFO phenomena is similar to what the old 'spirit medium' encounter in their session. Liars and Tricksters While all the scientific research is important for cataloging physical traces of the phenomena, i also suggest all research dont limit itself to just 'science'. there are lot of things thats beyond current understanding , and there are things that cannot be explained by material science. a little example, while we are driving on a jungle road at night , wilderness all around us , driving from plantation to plantation with no population in between, what can explain a lady wearing white standing alone beside the road ? a real scientist dont work and judge from a desk , a real scientist will do field work to prove/disprove..</B> reply posted on 8-12-2012 @ 02:22 AM by Ectoplasm8 Originally posted by Brighter No. The "Cheshire Cat Effect" properties of UFOs that Hynek was referring to are the exact properties that would lead one to abandon the ETH in favor of something like IDH/EDH. In fact, all of the points against the ETH that he brought up in "The Case Against E.T." are what lead people to favor things like IDH/EDH. So you're saying people favor the IDH/EDH over the ETH? If you are, I don't think that's completely true. Using this forum as an example of what people believe, more people on this forum still share the ETH. Which makes sense since a majority of UFO reports claim that an object with 3-dimensional properties moves across the sky, performs strange movements and speeds off. You don't find many reports claiming an object materializes and de-materializes in front of their eyes. If you disagree, lead me to those equally numbered cases. But, going with this IDH/EDH, that would be the optimum way for these "UFOs" go unnoticed, as they apparently attempt to do, wouldn't it? Zap into the 3rd-dimension, zap out. No need to fly off. But, the funny thing is, most of the claims have them jet off in one direction or another. No vanishing into thin air. It's ridiculous. All of these hypothesis have far too many holes in them to be taken seriously.... How does one prove the IDH/EDH? It would be practically impossible... What about Roswell? You would think if there was an objective to not be seen, they would have been pulled back to their other dimension. The supposed alive alien? He just zaps back over and is gone. IDH/EDH is just as ridiculous of a suggestion as the ETH. The entire alien belief is complete fantasy with the given hypotheses not even able to hold up to anything realistic. It's just graping at straws for those intent on this superior alien race answer. Hynek quote of "Putting the cart before the horse" works perfectly. I know that you want to think that Hynek abandoned the idea that aliens were controlling these craft, but you can't conclude this from the quotes that you are referencing that he made in his later years. All that you can conclude is that: 1) His focus shifted to an interest in the study of UFOs as opposed to questions regarding their origin. and 2) He brought up some counterarguments to the ETH. In neither 1) nor 2) do you see Hynek saying that he no longer believes that aliens could be controlling these craft. What you do see is someone who is more interested in raising the social perception of Ufology by turning the focus to the scientific study of what these craft are, as opposed to what might be controlling them. I don't think he did, it's exactly what he said. He didn't just state to focus your attention away from the ETH only to the objects themselves. That would be up for interpretation as to exactly what he meant. But, he gave point by point reasons why the ETH didn't make sense. He went further stating his last point can't be argued in favor of the ETH. How can you not understand that as Hynek abandoning the hypothesis? For the sake of your own argument, I can see why you continue to hold on to this assumption, but, in reality he clearly had changed his views.</B> <A class=postbtn href="http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/cc.php?tid=903446&pid=15484738&page=4" rel=nofollow target=_new> __________________ NIL ILLEGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM

18th January 2013	#2
dr wu23 Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,641 Rep Power: 3321	Dr.Wu this is for you.. Thanks Carol, interesting reading .......as was pointed out there are many aspects to the overall ufo enigma that defy a simple ET explanation which is why after many years people like Hynek and Vallee looked to alternate ideas. __________________ "If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't." -Emerson Pugh

18th January 2013	#3
Carol Nistri Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 16,801 Rep Power: 6403	Dr.Wu this is for you.. I remember quite clearly being angry reading Vallee for the first time.I didnt understand how this brilliant man couldnt wrap his mind around ET coming here.Its taking me all this time to even consider other possibilities,but ET is a Liar. __________________ NIL ILLEGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM