Has a negative been proven?

[dejarma]

It's widely believed that you can't prove a negative. But isn't the 'fact' that nothing has been proved in over 70 years> proving a negative?
If many enjoy the fantasy side of this enigma then great, no problem. Personally I'm looking for some kind of truth about ufos. I see this place & places like it in 10-20 years time still pondering over the so called evidence with absolutely no facts involved what so ever. Just as it is now-- no matter how deep someone's fantasy tick is dug in, this can't be denied because it IS fact, period, job done!
Fantasies & all the possibilities aside for a minute: if one is seriously looking for the truth then surely this can only be the logical answer & a negative has been proven? Just a thought.



dej...

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dejarma

It's widely believed that you can't prove a negative. But isn't the 'fact' that nothing has been proved in over 70 years> proving a negative?
If many enjoy the fantasy side of this enigma then great, no problem. Personally I'm looking for some kind of truth about ufos. I see this place & places like it in 10-20 years time still pondering over the so called evidence with absolutely no facts involved what so ever. Just as it is now-- no matter how deep someone's fantasy tick is dug in, this can't be denied because it IS fact, period, job done!
Fantasies & all the possibilities aside for a minute: if one is seriously looking for the truth then surely this can only be the logical answer & a negative has been proven? Just a thought.



dej...

Well, no Dejarma, because your idea that 70 years of failing to prove something, plus the notion that "nothing has been proved", both are fallacies.

First, there is no set period of time for proving that we are visited by alien UFOs (the truth could be so elusive as to require 200 years or 70 years and ONE DAY for full discovery), so there can be no conclusion from the absence of proof. (As you suggest yourself.)

Secondly, to state that nothing has been proved, in regard to UFOs is vague and baseless. Should we include the effort to 'prove' by Project Blue Book, which includes a finding of 10-30% of observed UFOs not explainable in earthly terms? If so it was proven some UFOs are not of Earth. Should we include the theories about Age of the Universe, and projected advances in space drives? These would suggest that if older alien civilizations developed space travel, it is well possible for them to have reached us by now.

Simply, some things were proved, and we must indeed still continue to work hard at finding out more imho.


orangekea

[dejarma]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Secondly, to state that nothing has been proved, in regard to UFOs is vague and baseless. Should we include the effort to 'prove' by Project Blue Book, which includes a finding of 10-30% of observed UFOs not explainable in earthly terms? If so it was proven some UFOs are not of Earth.

A claim that's unexplainable can only mean it's not of this earth???? oh ok then

Originally Posted by orangekea

Simply, some things were proved,

nothings been proved!!Complete & utter poppycock! this opens up another question, cheers orange:

what has been proved, in what way? tell me, anyone?-- i'm all ears... if i can keep my eyes open that is

[NonSmokingman]

Originally Posted by dejarma

Personally I'm looking for some kind of truth about ufos.

well UFO`s exist, the phenomena is real we have countless of Reports from best observers of the world: astronauts, military pilots, commercial line pilots...etc.

i don`t understand your point dej.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dejarma

A claim that's unexplainable can only mean it's not of this earth???? oh ok then
nothings been proved!!Complete & utter poppycock! this opens up another question, cheers orange:

what has been proved, in what way? tell me, anyone?-- i'm all ears... if i can keep my eyes open that is

Slow down me darlin', just reread my Reply # 2, I've made a (short) list of what has been proved. (If you find it, don't hesitate to disagree!)

I did not refer to inexplicable claims, Dej. I stated that there's a finding (published in the pie charts of Blue Book Special Report # 14, analysed by Friedman) of 10-30% of observed UFOs which cannot be explained IN EARTHLY TERMS.

Fair to say this makes these fellers 'not of Earth' you see?

Just to remind you what earthly terms could mean for teams of scientists (included were Hynek, but also the Batelle Institute): atmospheric phenomena, aircraft, planets/stars/meteorites, balloons, birds/insects, mental disorder in observers, eye disease in observer, mass hysteria, blobs of pesky swamp gas even(!), you name it.

If earthly terms of explanation are exhausted for a flying object, we can logically arrive at a finding NOT OF EARTH.


orangekea

[dejarma]

Originally Posted by NonSmokingman

well UFO`s exist, the phenomena is real we have countless of Reports from best observers of the world: astronauts, military pilots, commercial line pilots...etc.

i don`t understand your point dej.

OK Non, be honest with me here:
if we are looking at 1000 reports of something strange in the sky- would you agree there "must/ will be" a percentage of those reports where the witness didn't really see anything> fabrications/ lies/ made up stories for a laugh or for whatever reason?

[dejarma]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Slow down me darlin', just reread my Reply # 2, I've made a (short) list of what has been proved. (If you find it, don't hesitate to disagree!)

Well me darlin sweetie-pie, one read through is enough for me if what I've read makes sense! A list of "proved things" where?? I think you need to quote from post 2 for me

dej...

[NonSmokingman]

Originally Posted by dejarma

OK Non, be honest with me here:
if we are looking at 1000 reports of something strange in the sky- would you agree there "must/ will be" a percentage of those reports where the witness didn't really see anything> fabrications/ lies/ made up stories for a laugh or for whatever reason?

i would say about 90% of cases is explainable, but about 10%....unexplainable

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dejarma

Well me darlin sweetie-pie, one read through is enough for me if what I've read makes sense! A list of "proved things" where?? I think you need to quote from post 2 for me

dej...

You're a regular Kiss Me Me I'm A Sweet Little Haggis Hunter T-shirt wearing teddy bear, Dejarma. Still I had to take two veterinary strength nice pills in order to re-re-quote my relevant text to you. Here goes :

Originally Posted by orangekea

Should we include the effort to 'prove' by Project Blue Book, which includes a finding of 10-30% of observed UFOs not explainable in earthly terms? If so it was proven some UFOs are not of Earth.

Relevance: it was proven some UFOs are not of Earth.

Originally Posted by orangekea

Should we include the theories about Age of the Universe, and projected advances in space drives? These would suggest that if older alien civilizations developed space travel, it is well possible for them to have reached us by now.

Relevance: the proven age of the universe=approx. 13.772 billion yrs, combined with our own rate of advances in research into space propulsion (we have a real probe Voyager I racing outward to theoretically reach nearest stardistance=4.23 light years in 73,000 years) showing we are continuously reducing travel times through the universe, perhaps to 'mere' thousands of years to the next star. This proves it probable that older civizations could have sufficient headstart to create propulsions capable of reaching Earth by now.

I hope this helps.


orangekea

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by NonSmokingman

i would say about 90% of cases is explainable, but about 10%....unexplainable

That's a conservative estimate, however I agree with your statement, NonSmokingman.

Personally I think it fair to say the origin of that 10% is EXTREMELY exotic, even unearthly.


orangekea