Phil Corso

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I disagree. People have families. Many would not be willing to put at risk or subject to ridicule the ones they love. I know that I would not.

Nothing has ever happened to any of families of the well known alleged insiders who have told their tales...nothing. There are a few conspiracy cases out there about a few fringe people but nothing concrete at all.
So imo that seems to negate that concern.

[Nimue]

Negate the concern? What? Why? You are speaking from a very far removed stance, which of course influences your bias, your ideology, everything. You are assuming a lot of these families if you think they are likely to be aware to the level you are of this phenomenon. So yes, it is completely acceptable and reasonable to assume that the average person might be reluctant to give out information they were told NOT to. By their government no less, for which they worked. Most veterans are very proud to be such, and would never do as Corso did, regardless of what they might know. Regardless of how much time has passed.

It has been my experience, that most people - don't think past what they are going to watch on cable once they get out of work. People like those on this site and others, we are a minority - it is erroneous to believe most people think as deeply on these sort of subjects as we all do. It's just not accurate. Most people allow others to dictate to them what they should think, how they should behave. So I still maintain that those around Corso had nothing to gain in releasing any info they may have been told to keep silent about. Imagine the social upheaval such a discovery would actually have if it was corroborated with by our government officials. Retired or not. It would be chaos.

I don't know, just my opinion and experience. *shrugs*

[Darrell]

I was going to jump all over wu's post; but I see that Nimue did it for me. Thanks, Nimue.

BTW, I have seen first hand how government "representatives" can come in after a UFO incident and scare the bejesus out of the witnesses. When security guards where I worked reported an UFO spending an hour checking out a test field our company operated, I was amazed how we civilians were all "ordered" to keep our mouths shut. I was also amazed at how business-like our formerly chatty guards were during the next year I was there. They wouldn't even talk sports! You have to scare people pretty deep to generate that kind of behavior.

SO ... dr wu, with all respect, you are just blowing smoke. You haven't been there; so you don't really know what it's like to be ordered by the government to keep your mouth shut, or else!

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I
SO ... dr wu, with all respect, you are just blowing smoke. You haven't been there; so you don't really know what it's like to be ordered by the government to keep your mouth shut, or else!

I don't think so; can you cite any documented cases where these insiders like Dean, Corso, Lazar, etc have had their families threatened.
Or are you talking anecdotal only?
BTW you are changing the subject a little. I was specifically referring to people like Corso who have publically come forward to make a claim.
Were his family members threatened in any way?...because I don't recall reading this.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Nimue

Negate the concern? What? Why? You are speaking from a very far removed stance, which of course influences your bias, your ideology, everything. You are assuming a lot of these families if you think they are likely to be aware to the level you are of this phenomenon. So yes, it is completely acceptable and reasonable to assume that the average person might be reluctant to give out information they were told NOT to. By their government no less, for which they worked. Most veterans are very proud to be such, and would never do as Corso did, regardless of what they might know. Regardless of how much time has passed.

It has been my experience, that most people - don't think past what they are going to watch on cable once they get out of work. People like those on this site and others, we are a minority - it is erroneous to believe most people think as deeply on these sort of subjects as we all do. It's just not accurate. Most people allow others to dictate to them what they should think, how they should behave. So I still maintain that those around Corso had nothing to gain in releasing any info they may have been told to keep silent about. Imagine the social upheaval such a discovery would actually have if it was corroborated with by our government officials. Retired or not. It would be chaos.

I don't know, just my opinion and experience. *shrugs*

That's possible but that was not my main point. Was Corso or his family threatened? Never heard about it and not in his book. Was Lazar thrown in prison..? No. How about Dean, another whistle blower. Was his family threatened? What about the astronauts that have come forward? They were probably told to also keep their mouths shut, assuming they saw a ufo, have their families been threatened?

[Darrell]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I don't think so; can you cite any documented cases where these insiders like Dean, Corso, Lazar, etc have had their families threatened.
Or are you talking anecdotal only?
BTW you are changing the subject a little. I was specifically referring to people like Corso who have publically come forward to make a claim.
Were his family members threatened in any way?...because I don't recall reading this.

I already did better than that. I just gave you a personal account of it happening. I WAS THERE WHEN THE ORDERS WERE GIVEN. The "or else" part was given in general terms which all understood. No one knows what our guards were told. They were "debriefed" such that they hardly even spoke in the year or more that I was there afterward; and they used to be very chatty individuals.

As to documented cases where threats were made, I recall hearing accounts like that for some of the witnesses on various UFO FILES shows; but I don't remember which programs or who it pertained to. I'm rather confident that everyone that worked for the government was at minimum cited articles 18 and 19 of the espionage act. And at his level, I'm rather confident that the understanding went far deeper than that.

[Darrell]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

That's possible but that was not my main point. Was Corso or his family threatened? Never heard about it and not in his book. Was Lazar thrown in prison..? No. How about Dean, another whistle blower. Was his family threatened? What about the astronauts that have come forward? They were probably told to also keep their mouths shut, assuming they saw a ufo, have their families been threatened?

Funny that you mention the former astronauts. It is my understanding that many have since died under somewhat suspicious or mysterious circumstances. Could be just coincidence ...

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by Darrell

He couldn't know in advance that it would sell well. Most UFO books do not.

But his was different--something purporting to come from an insider, with at least some credentials to add weight to his account, about the most famous case ever, in the view of many. He wouldn't have been at all unreasonable to expect to make $.

He was also an old man, such that making money wouldn't be much of an incentive.

I didn't say he was hard up to make money, but heck, to my knowledge, he didn't know he'd die soon, and $ can be useful to people at any age.

And to think that he purposely tried to discredit UFO convictions with a book revealing information about them is absurd and illogical.

But the "information" is so questionable it clearly hurts the whole crash retrieval field instead of helping it-- a perfectly logical motive for the government, which could've put him up to it.

Does Friedman do all of your thinking for you?

HELL NO. My point was that if even Friedman, who has endorsed a number of claims widely considered dubious, in this field, rejects corso, there's a very good chance he's no good.

Actually, I think just the opposite. There is a rising tide as one by one other countries (Britian, France, Belgium, ... ) release much of what they know. The pressure mounts for the USA to do the same.

I'd be willing to bet you any amount of $ we won't see the US disclose in the next 5 years, if that's what you think. The US may have virtually all of the most sensitive material; other "disclosures" are practically irrelevant.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

I don't think so; can you cite any documented cases where these insiders like Dean, Corso, Lazar, etc have had their families threatened.
Or are you talking anecdotal only?
BTW you are changing the subject a little. I was specifically referring to people like Corso who have publically come forward to make a claim.
Were his family members threatened in any way?...because I don't recall reading this.

I think that on threats (I'd rather call it safeguarding sensitive info) Darrell has it, Wu. Your idea of how folks who 'know too much' are 'threatened' is too hollywood or spy-novel.

In my country there have been about a handful of cases where AIVD employees leaked information to newspapers. Imo for the greater good, conscience driven! They were tracked down, and 'dissappeared' into a separate justice system (security related) that allows for sentences of up to 10 years. In an absolute hell-hole of a prison, I've heard by DoD aquaintances. That is the general 'threat', when gov workers contemplate releasing stuff deemed secure/sensitive without authorization. This may be reinforced by a collegue dropping by for a chat, kinda mention this in passing. More than enough to scare you, and endanger the future of your loved ones and family.

In the US for military personnel, especially Air Force, until recently the maximum penalty for releasing a UFO report to the public without authorization, has been 10 years too, plus a sizable fine. (And you can forget about your career.)

So if you're really sitting on a big secret, you'll think twice before blabbing, even if you're old. The safest way still is a final affidavit, to be published after death.


orangekea

[Carol Nistri]

Dr.Wu,if they were other than space aliens wont you be in the least disappointed? If there really um,whichamacallits,I think we have them on the run.No kidding,we humans have one thing they dont have,in spades,Hope.They dont or cant hope,we can,that maybe why they do as they do that is to pretend there from another planet,to fool mankind and to dash our hopes,only mankind is such that you cant kill hope it keeps bumping us and is always with us.