Aliens = Demons?

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

I want to consider all possibilites and these entities abducting people and torturing them is demonic as far as Im concerned.

Thanks, Carol, this kinda anwers my question(s) about what you meant when talking about the 'possibility of Demons'! (I do see this is like an unsolvable puzzle to you, and I feel the same way.)

Your position, based on quote above is that Demons exist, and abductions involving torture could be their work. But you leave a rear exit open for yourself it seems, where ET could be as bad as the demons from Christian tradition...

[Antrikshaadmi]

Originally Posted by orangekea

ET could be as bad as the demons from Christian tradition...

Why must Christianity be the only religious paradigm applied to Ufology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu



This is why Ufology is currently considered fringe pseudoscience by mainstream science and why Ufology will never be taken seriously enough for official scientific inquiry.

Science + Religion = Religion, when a science teacher pulls out a Bible and starts teaching from it, it becomes a theology class. Dragging religion into Ufology makes it impossible to find a mainstream scientist willing to take the subject seriously enough to research aliens and their spacecraft, religion is an obstacle to finding the truth about aliens and not a way to find the truth about aliens.

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Your position, based on quote above is that Demons exist, and abductions involving torture could be their work. But you leave a rear exit open for yourself it seems, where ET could be as bad as the demons from Christian tradition...

The phenomenon appears technical, so ET is much more plausible. And while abductors may be engaged in research, the pain inflicted sometimes appears gratuitous, so "demons" may be appropriate.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by starman2003

The phenomenon appears technical, so ET is much more plausible. And while abductors may be engaged in research, the pain inflicted sometimes appears gratuitous, so "demons" may be appropriate.

Your mind seems open enough, Starman!

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

Why must Christianity be the only religious paradigm applied to Ufology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu



This is why Ufology is currently considered fringe pseudoscience by mainstream science and why Ufology will never be taken seriously enough for official scientific inquiry.

Science + Religion = Religion, when a science teacher pulls out a Bible and starts teaching from it, it becomes a theology class. Dragging religion into Ufology makes it impossible to find a mainstream scientist willing to take the subject seriously enough to research aliens and their spacecraft, religion is an obstacle to finding the truth about aliens and not a way to find the truth about aliens.

Nobody's saying Christianity should be the "only" paradigm applied to UFOs. And I remember seeing Atheism, empirical science (Jurgen ), Agnosticism (a certain unnamed eye doctor ), Mysticism (myself), even Islam and untold other models getting applied, Antrik. Carol is free to compare Aliens with whatever she wants (and she proposes Demons, the more or less Christian/R.C. variety), and we can give our opinions in return, whatever!

I doubt mainstream scientists are losing sleep over our UfoE postings here. And we do not have certain knowledge concerning how religion and aliens relate. (There are UFO cults, = new religions!, the Bible speaks of UFOs and abductions, the Quran refers to Jinn resembling evil aliens/spirits, and maybe just maybe our Gods are assorted ET visitors!!)


orangekea

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by orangekea

Nobody's saying Christianity should be the "only" paradigm applied to UFOs. And I remember seeing Atheism, empirical science (Jurgen ), Agnosticism (a certain unnamed eye doctor ), Mysticism (myself), even Islam and untold other models getting applied, Antrik. Carol is free to compare Aliens with whatever she wants (and she proposes Demons, the more or less Christian/R.C. variety), and we can give our opinions in return, whatever!

I doubt mainstream scientists are losing sleep over our UfoE postings here. And we do not have certain knowledge concerning how religion and aliens relate. (There are UFO cults, = new religions!, the Bible speaks of UFOs and abductions, the Quran refers to Jinn resembling evil aliens/spirits, and maybe just maybe our Gods are assorted ET visitors!!)


orangekea

There have been several books to address the alien identity issue in that manner and in similar ways.
Alien Identities by Thompson
Angels and Aliens by Thompson
The Grand Illusion by Little
Daimonic Reality by Harpur

IMHO all of these books are a must for anyone who wants to look at the various religious interpretive aspects regarding aliens as possible 'supernatural/metaphysical' beings (or even dimensional beings) and not ET.

And technically the Bible does not speak of 'ufos and alien abductions.'..that's how some moderns interpret what the ancients considered religious encounters with God and his reps.
A subtle disitinction but an important one imo.

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

And technically the Bible does not speak of 'ufos and alien abductions.

Of course not; they could only interpret them as religious figures; they didn't have the concept of a advanced civilization, the basis of a modern, rational interpretation.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by starman2003

Of course not; they could only interpret them as religious figures; they didn't have the concept of a advanced civilization, the basis of a modern, rational interpretation.

The key point here is later modern interpretation....which is speculation long after the fact.
As such it's practically worthless and again comes down to what one wants to believe; either a true metaphysical experience via God or space aliens misinterpreted. IMO they are both belief systems with no way now to determine the truth.
Simply because we are now in a 'scientific' age does not mean supernatural or metaphysical events did not happen then nor that they aren't happenng now and an integral part of Reality.

btw...I'm not stating they were true religious events (I'm agnostic on most of these things..) but that we have no way of proving what they were or were not.

[Antrikshaadmi]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

btw...I'm not stating they were true religious events (I'm agnostic on most of these things..) but that we have no way of proving what they were or were not.

If UFOs and aliens are supernatural, seeing them would qualify as a deep spiritual experience.

http://www.livescience.com/health/sp...nk-100211.html

Scientists have identified areas of the brain that, when damaged, lead to greater spirituality. The findings hint at the roots of spiritual and religious attitudes, the researchers say.
The study, published in the Feb. 11 issue of the journal Neuron, involves a personality trait called self-transcendence, which is a somewhat vague measure of spiritual feeling, thinking, and behaviors. Self-transcendence "reflects a decreased sense of self and an ability to identify one's self as an integral part of the universe as a whole," the researchers explain.
Before and after surgery, the scientists surveyed patients who had brain tumors removed. The surveys generate self-transcendence scores.
Selective damage to the left and right posterior parietal regions of the brain induced a specific increase in self-transcendence, or ST, the surveys showed.

"Our symptom-lesion mapping study is the first demonstration of a causative link between brain functioning and ST," said Dr. Cosimo Urgesi from the University of Udine in Italy. "Damage to posterior parietal areas induced unusually fast changes of a stable personality dimension related to transcendental self-referential awareness. Thus, dysfunctional parietal neural activity may underpin altered spiritual and religious attitudes and behaviors."
Previous neuroimaging studies had linked activity within a large network in the brain that connects the frontal, parietal, and temporal cortexes with spiritual experiences, "but information on the causative link between such a network and spirituality is lacking," explains lead study author, Urgesi said.
One study, reported in 2008, suggested that the brain's right parietal lobe defines "Me," and people with less active Me-Definers are more likely to lead spiritual lives.
The finding could lead to new strategies for treating some forms of mental illness.
"If a stable personality trait like ST can undergo fast changes as a consequence of brain lesions, it would indicate that at least some personality dimensions may be modified by influencing neural activity in specific areas," said Dr. Salvatore M. Aglioti from Sapienza University of Rome. "Perhaps novel approaches aimed at modulating neural activity might ultimately pave the way to new treatments of personality disorders."

It seems I'll need to damage my brain to accept the aliens = demons idea as even worth contemplating. I try to hold back out of respect for Carol and other religious members here, because I really have nothing nice to say about religion. This post being an example of what I really think about religion.

Experiments have proven that spirituality is caused by brain damage. The mind is like a muscle, if you don't use it it atrophies. In the case of the brain under the effects of religion inspired anti-intellectualism, the atrophy is the source of intense spiritual experiences. That's why it's difficult to find people that aren't mentally deficient who place a high value on spirituality or that proclaim to have spiritual experiences.

edit

Originally Posted by orangekea

Nobody's saying Christianity should be the "only" paradigm applied to UFOs. And I remember seeing Atheism, empirical science (Jurgen ), Agnosticism (a certain unnamed eye doctor ), Mysticism (myself), even Islam and untold other models getting applied, Antrik. Carol is free to compare Aliens with whatever she wants (and she proposes Demons, the more or less Christian/R.C. variety), and we can give our opinions in return, whatever!

I doubt mainstream scientists are losing sleep over our UfoE postings here. And we do not have certain knowledge concerning how religion and aliens relate. (There are UFO cults, = new religions!, the Bible speaks of UFOs and abductions, the Quran refers to Jinn resembling evil aliens/spirits, and maybe just maybe our Gods are assorted ET visitors!!)


orangekea

I apologize to you and to Carol for not holding back forever, did I forget to mention I was banned from an atheist forum for being too anti-religious?

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

I just got banned from a crappy Proboards atheist forum because I was too anti religious.

[Carol Nistri]

Antri,why do you try so hard not to believe in God?