Aliens = Demons?

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

Simply because we are now in a 'scientific' age does not mean supernatural or metaphysical events did not happen then nor that they aren't happenng now and an integral part of Reality.

btw...I'm not stating they were true religious events (I'm agnostic on most of these things..) but that we have no way of proving what they were or were not.

Well, it is noteworthy that even "supernatural and metaphysical' events now have rational explanations. Erhman has an interesting explanation for the apostles's claim they met a resurrected christ, for example.

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

Antri,why do you try so hard not to believe in God?

The burden of proof is on the believers; why do they try so hard to believe, especially since the concept is highly dated.

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

..did I forget to mention I was banned from an atheist forum for being too anti-religious?

Could've happened to me.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by starman2003

Well, it is noteworthy that even "supernatural and metaphysical' events now have rational explanations. Erhman has an interesting explanation for the apostles's claim they met a resurrected christ,

Ehrman is just another religious debunker....he has no more credibility than anyone else in that regard.
And no one has provided any proof, rational or otherwise, for or against supernatural or metaphysical events..it's all speculation just like the beliefs themselves.
It's all guesswork.....on both sides.

[Miss Deetective]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

If UFOs and aliens are supernatural, seeing them would qualify as a deep spiritual experience.
It seems I'll need to damage my brain to accept the aliens = demons idea as even worth contemplating. I try to hold back out of respect for Carol and other religious members here, because I really have nothing nice to say about religion. This post being an example of what I really think about religion.edit

I apologize to you and to Carol for not holding back forever, did I forget to mention I was banned from an atheist forum for being too anti-religious?

I guess I am The Lone Atheist!!.......I see no need to hang around an Atheist forum. I do not need their "support" for my beliefs or lack thereof. Just as I am opposed to organized religion, I am equally opposed to organized Atheism.

[Jurgen]

Originally Posted by Miss Deetective

I guess I am The Lone Atheist!!.......I see no need to hang around an Atheist forum. I do not need their "support" for my beliefs or lack thereof. Just as I am opposed to organized religion, I am equally opposed to organized Atheism.

Guess again...
I'm not actively against religion though, I just can't and refuse to believe there are gods.

[Miss Deetective]

Originally Posted by Jurgen

Guess again...
I'm not actively against religion though, I just can't and refuse to believe there are gods.

I agree with you. I am not militant and if religion fills a need or a void and brings comfort to some people....good for them.
An invisible omnipotent god does not do a thing for me....I need proof...solid irrefutable proof....and logic tells me that kind of proof does not exist.

[Jurgen]

Amen to that

[Antrikshaadmi]

Originally Posted by Carol Nistri

Antri,why do you try so hard not to believe in God?

It's as effortless as not believing in Zeus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_(word)

Wōdanaz or Wōđinaz is the reconstructed Proto-Germanic name of a god of Germanic paganism, known as Odin in Norse mythology, Wōden in Old English, Wodan or Wotan in Old High German and Godan in the Lombardic language. Godan was shortened to God over time and was adopted/retained by the Germanic peoples of the British isles as the name of their deity, in lieu of the Latin word Deus used by the Latin speaking Christian church, after conversion to Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus

Deus (Latin pronunciation: [ˈdeːʊs]) is Latin for "god" or "deity". Latin deus and dīvus "divine", are descended from Proto-Indo-European *deiwos, from the same root as *Dyēus, the reconstructed chief god of the Proto-Indo-European pantheon. Compare Greek Zeus (Ζεύς zdeús; Aeolic Greek Δεύς deús) and Sanskrit देव deva.

Originally Posted by Etymology of the word God

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=god&searchmode =none

O.E. god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. O.S., O.Fris., Du. god, O.H.G. got, Ger. Gott, O.N. guð, Goth. guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. O.C.S. zovo "to call," Skt. huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Gk. khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (2)). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus. <---- (see also Zeus)

Not related to good. Originally a neuter noun in Germanic, the gender shifted to masculine after the coming of Christianity. O.E. god was probably closer in sense to L. numen. A better word to translate deus might have been P.Gmc. *ansuz, but this was used only of the highest deities in the Germanic religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in English mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-.

I want my lawyer, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, because it means that I shall be cheated and robbed and cuckolded less often. ... If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. [Voltaire]

God bless you after someone sneezes is credited to St. Gregory the Great, but the pagan Romans (Absit omen) and Greeks had similar customs.

We have something in common Carol, we are both atheistic toward Norse and Ancient Greek religions.

[orangekea]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

There have been several books to address the alien identity issue in that manner and in similar ways.
Alien Identities by Thompson
Angels and Aliens by Thompson
The Grand Illusion by Little
Daimonic Reality by Harpur

IMHO all of these books are a must for anyone who wants to look at the various religious interpretive aspects regarding aliens as possible 'supernatural/metaphysical' beings (or even dimensional beings) and not ET.

And my point is that all these hypotheses (however weird) are potential solutions to the UFO enigma, and get routinely posted about on our forum. So I maintain that Carol has every right to propose yet another extraordinary role for aliens: ET-Astronaut Impersonating Devils.

Originally Posted by dr wu23

And technically the Bible does not speak of 'ufos and alien abductions.'..that's how some moderns interpret what the ancients considered religious encounters with God and his reps.
A subtle disitinction but an important one imo.

As a matter of fact the Bible does not speak of (recently coined) 'ufos and alien abductions' LITERALLY, that is the words are not included verbatim. But technically, yes the Angels, powerful non-humans who descend to Earth, suddenly appear/vanish, on occasion withhold their name (Hebrew tradition: =keep essential nature a secret), have mysterious origins, and could be the ancient identity of the class of being we call ET today.

Hebrew deity JAHWEH goes out to meet Abram (=Abraham) in a flying furnace (surely not indicating any culinary activity !), meaning the author COULD NOT IDENTIFY the form of transport YAHWEH was using, only that it looked most like the domelike stone ovens commonly used in the Middle East approx. 2nm millennium BCE. An airborne furnace constitutes the Hebrew tribe's contempory term for our modern flying saucer and UFO.

The Prophet Ezekiel sees, in an altered state of mind, flying and landing wheels on their side, and enters into contact with the non-human entities linked to these wheels. Again, flying wheels on their sides and the living creatures moving with them, could be the term of the day for our saucers and UFOs.

Simply the Bible describes flying, disc/dome-like objects, plus contact with non-humans (Angels and YAHWEH), none of which are fully understood or identified. Thus it is reasonable to say the Bible speaks about UFOs and even Aliens.


orangekea

[User]

to me all this angels and demons and miracles discribed in the bible are an explation of what people of the ancient times could interpret of what we call UFOS. The bible like any other book can mean diffrent things to different people according to their backround
( social,educational and even religious beliefs )

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by Miss Deetective

I agree with you. I am not militant and if religion fills a need or a void and brings comfort to some people....good for them.
An invisible omnipotent god does not do a thing for me....I need proof...solid irrefutable proof....and logic tells me that kind of proof does not exist.

Solid irrefutable proof...? Yes,,,I'd like some of that for aliens too.