Aliens = Demons?

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by Antrikshaadmi

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

No one aware of UFOlogy should waste time with out and out fiction.

[conspiracygirl]

I think differently starman2003, Sci-Fi is the meme that has been heisted by UFOlogists to explain the phenomenon. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[conspiracygirl]

Morphodeception

Throughout the Bible (evil spirits, demons, fallen angels, nephilim), folklore (sylphs, fairies, gnomes, spirits of the air), and UFO (grays, reptilians, ETs, space brothers, chupacabra) literature, we find our visitors have the ability to manipulate time and space. To choose a form at will. They seem to be toying with their true nature. Almost laughing at us mere mortals.
A quick browse through the encounters of all ages, and this 'morphodeception' becomes apparent. Vallee, "...we have had to note carefully the chameleonlike character of the secondary attributes of the sightings: the shapes of the objects, the appearances of their occupants, their reported statements, vary as a function of the cultural environment into which they are projected."
You can read many accounts and descriptions of various entities describing what seems to be one phenomenon with many names. If anyone has read any of Carlos Castaneda's books, Don Juan teaches his students about powerful beings called 'allies'.
Don Juan, "....They take any size or shape that suits them. They could be a pebble or a mountain. In the company of men they behave like men. In the company of animals they behave like animals. Animals are usually afraid of them."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/past.html

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by starman2003

Science has clearly shown that "god" is not needed to explain things. Since it's not needed and not observed, it's logical to assume it doesn't exist.

Read C. W. Atkins and Dawkins.

A fallacious philosophical position often used but not correct and you know what happens when you assume.
I've read Dawkins ...as a matter of fact I was one of the first to mention him on this board a long time ago. I agree with his comments about organized religion and it's social problems with global peace at times, but his arguments about the 'non existence ' of God are philosophical opinion just like those for the existence of God. Neither position is provable since neither is testable in any rational scientific manner.
I'll use the ETH believers favoroite quote back on them;
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."


btw... as you know I'm agnostic but I don't think we should be making absolutist statements about ontological proofs that don't prove anythng one way or the other.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by conspiracygirl

Morphodeception

Throughout the Bible (evil spirits, demons, fallen angels, nephilim), folklore (sylphs, fairies, gnomes, spirits of the air), and UFO (grays, reptilians, ETs, space brothers, chupacabra) literature, we find our visitors have the ability to manipulate time and space. To choose a form at will. They seem to be toying with their true nature. Almost laughing at us mere mortals.
A quick browse through the encounters of all ages, and this 'morphodeception' becomes apparent. Vallee, "...we have had to note carefully the chameleonlike character of the secondary attributes of the sightings: the shapes of the objects, the appearances of their occupants, their reported statements, vary as a function of the cultural environment into which they are projected."
You can read many accounts and descriptions of various entities describing what seems to be one phenomenon with many names. If anyone has read any of Carlos Castaneda's books, Don Juan teaches his students about powerful beings called 'allies'.
Don Juan, "....They take any size or shape that suits them. They could be a pebble or a mountain. In the company of men they behave like men. In the company of animals they behave like animals. Animals are usually afraid of them."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/past.html

Welcome....you and Orangekea should get along well.

But those are valid observations imo. What and how do we classify 'beings' that have gone under many names in the past? Are we experiencing space aliens pretending to be 'demons' , 'demons' posing as space aliens , or something else entirely that is neither but that we have lumped into the ET box?
While many in the ufo arena (circus?) have already decided , without any final objective evidence imho, that this is all about ET from outer space, shouldn't we be holding off on any final pronouncements until we truly get a handle on this enigmatic phenomenon?

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by dr wu23

A fallacious philosophical position often used but not correct and you know what happens when you assume.... Neither position is provable since neither is testable in any rational scientific manner.

But this is how scientists actually think. When something is epistemically unnecessary, and not observable, it is considered nonexistent. We assume witches, the tooth fairy, and santa claus are phony for exactly this reason--even if we can't prove it.

I'll use the ETH believers favoroite quote back on them;
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

That's not "the ETH believers" favorite quote, but Friedman's. Randle disagrees, writing that "when due diligence has been performed, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence." Same goes for "the guy upstairs."

[conspiracygirl]

Hi, dr wu. I don't think I'll ever get a handle on this enigmatic phenomenon. lol It seems that whichever hypothesis takes your fancy there is an sea of reports, opinions and discussion to feed it and let it thrive.

I find ET is the least likely explanation, in the last two centuries UFO's have evolved from airships to motherships, always just one step ahead of earth technology. Gracious, we even have flying triangles now, B52's.

I think that whatever they are, they have been around since pre-history maybe longer than us. Are they extra-terrestrial or not? Maybe ultra-dimensional or from a parallel multiverse. Whatever they are I think that much can be learnt from what other cultures and past civilisations wrote about our 'visitors'.

[starman2003]

Originally Posted by conspiracygirl

I think differently starman2003, Sci-Fi is the meme that has been heisted by UFOlogists to explain the phenomenon. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The ETH at least, is a scientifically valid concept. And the phenomenon differs from sci fi.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by starman2003

But this is how scientists actually think. When something is epistemically unnecessary, and not observable, it is considered nonexistent. We assume witches, the tooth fairy, and santa claus are phony for exactly this reason--even if we can't prove it.



That's not "the ETH believers" favorite quote, but Friedman's. Randle disagrees, writing that "when due diligence has been performed, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence." Same goes for "the guy upstairs."

Some scientists do consider things non existent using that philosophy of science and imo it's also not supportable using their own logic when referring to metaphysical ideas. It only works on objective materialism.
And any book on the philosophy of science will point this out. Many if not most scientists who have written on this have said science has nothing to say about God and the metaphysical since it's beyond the area of scientific knowledge to test or explore ... Don't confuse apples with oranges here.

Well,,, Friedman is one of the major ETH supporters..is he not? he speaks for a large part of the ufo ETH community.

[dr wu23]

Originally Posted by conspiracygirl

Hi, dr wu. I don't think I'll ever get a handle on this enigmatic phenomenon. lol It seems that whichever hypothesis takes your fancy there is an sea of reports, opinions and discussion to feed it and let it thrive.

I find ET is the least likely explanation, in the last two centuries UFO's have evolved from airships to motherships, always just one step ahead of earth technology. Gracious, we even have flying triangles now, B52's.

I think that whatever they are, they have been around since pre-history maybe longer than us. Are they extra-terrestrial or not? Maybe ultra-dimensional or from a parallel multiverse. Whatever they are I think that much can be learnt from what other cultures and past civilisations wrote about our 'visitors'.

I agree that there is much we don't understand about this enigma and it does have parallels to past and even ancient paradigms related to the paranormal and the occcult. Looking at the old tales and reports could give us insight into the phenomenon but unfortunately many who are married to the ETH (most in the ufo arena) are missing out on these other aspects or simply refuse to think about them other than to dismiss the idea out of hand.
Just curious but what are your favorite books that look at alternative ideas?