Not So Believable Person

JoyBear73 · 23rd July 2012

Some people want to believe so bad, that UFO's are real that they will believe just about anything some people that sound important say, such as Michael Schratt. He makes it seem as though he has done lots of research and has all kinds of information, but I don't think he knows as much as he and everyone listening to him thinks. Here are a few examples to prove my point.

On UFO Hunters Season 3, Episode 12, The Silencers, I noticed some incorrect information. When they met with Michael Schratt, he shows them a security clearance organizational chart. This chart is just about completely wrong. I am a Retired E-6 from the U.S.A.F, and was in the Command and Control career field, the last 6 years of service were in Nuclear Command and Control. I possessed a Top Secret/Special Compartmented Information Cosmic Top Secret Atomal (TS/SCI CTSA) Security Clearance. The problems with his Security Clearance Organizational Chart are this:

1) The chart looks more like he typed it up himself, not an actual chart from any military regulation, since it has no header information from the unit that created it, which any official military document requires.

2) The chart has Restricted as the lowest level. Restricted is NOT a security clearance, it is to designate areas on or in facilities that work with classified information, and is to let others know they are not allowed to go in without prior authorization.

3) As in the previous, the next one is Unclassified, this again is NOT a security clearance, it is a security calssification, meaning the information can be given to just about anyone.

4) The chart has Special Compartmented Information (SCI) above Top Secret. SCI is not a security clearance, it is an additional identifier added to Top Secret to give access to certain information to individuals with it (i.e. nuclear material).

5) USAP does not exist, it is only SAP, which is Special Access Programs, and is NOT a security clearance, again it is an identifier allowing access to individuals that are a part of the special access program. If you don't have the identifier, you WILL NOT get any information about that program.

6) Top Secret Crypto is NOT a security clearance, it is cryptologic material used for communication equipment encryption, which some of it is Top Secret, but there is also unclassified, confidential, and secret crypto, depends on the level of encryption.

7) He says the President is level 17 TS/Crypto and makes reference to nuclear launch codes. Level 17 and crypto has nothing to do with that. Crypto was used in the equipment used to transmit the nuclear launch messages to encrypt it. I should know since my job was the receiving end of those codes and relaying them.

8) The second highest is COSMIC, again not a security clearance, it is ONLY a designation signifying access to NATO classified, keyword is NATO, ONLY personnel serving in a NATO country have that designation.

9) He does not have ATOMAL on his chart, which is good since it is also ONLY a security designator, meaning access to NATO nuclear material.

10) Although I'm not sure of any of the other ones he has listed (i.e. Astral, Stellar, Cosmos), but given all the above errors, I would have to say they are more than likely wrong or non-existent.

I think the above is enough to show that he isn't as meticulous or knowing as he and others make him out to be.

**Carol Nistri** · 23rd July 2012

Welcome JoyBear,thats quite a post for your first one,any chance that chart is online somewhere?

JoyBear73 · 23rd July 2012

Thanks Carol. I guess the chart would be online somewhere, everything is online lol. The chart in the UFO Hunters, Season 3, Episode 12, starts at the 24:30 minute mark though.

**Jurgen** · 23rd July 2012

The episode concerning:

JoyBear73 · 23rd July 2012

Thanks for posting that Jurgen. The portion I talked about starts around 24:30.

**ChrisPerridas** · 23rd July 2012

Hi, JoyBear, I'm still pretty new to the forum, too. Thanks for your analysis. It helps me understand, and I agree if a person makes one mistake, start scrutinizing for more errors.

At 25:00 I heard "this is all a theory..." referring to the security clearances.

**dr wu23** · 23rd July 2012

Thanks joy bear and welcome to the board.

But what was the intent of the post?... was it to cast doubt on Schratt or the tv show or..? Where are you going with this regarding the ufo enigma?

JoyBear73 · 23rd July 2012

Thanks for the warm welcome dr wu. I was merely trying to show that Mr. Schratt, who has been on a few tv and radio shows, and done seminars, and sells dvd's, with information that he gives out as real and factual, when it really isn't and he shouldn't be cashing in on others beliefs. I really liked UFO Hunter's, unfortunately it has been cancelled, but I think they should have checked on some of the sources a bit more, and Bill should have been a bit more open minded as he appeared to believe every thing he was told. I know there were a number of videos on the show that Bill fully believed were unexplainable, but they were VERY obvious flares from planes. I do believe there are all kinds of things in the sky that are unidentified by the person seeing it, but doesn't mean some of them can't be explained by someone else. Thankfully there's a new show, Chasing UFO's, to fill in now. I don't really think I was trying to go anywhere with the post, just show, not all or everyone should be believed without doing some research. Do I believe in extra terrestrial flying objects? I believe there could be, but I haven't seen one myself, so I am a bit more skeptical, but I don't put down claims by others, and some of the videos and pics I've seen, I can't explain either.

**Carol Nistri** · 23rd July 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoyBear73

Thanks for the warm welcome dr wu. I was merely trying to show that Mr. Schratt, who has been on a few tv and radio shows, and done seminars, and sells dvd's, with information that he gives out as real and factual, when it really isn't and he shouldn't be cashing in on others beliefs. I really liked UFO Hunter's, unfortunately it has been cancelled, but I think they should have checked on some of the sources a bit more, and Bill should have been a bit more open minded as he appeared to believe every thing he was told. I know there were a number of videos on the show that Bill fully believed were unexplainable, but they were VERY obvious flares from planes. I do believe there are all kinds of things in the sky that are unidentified by the person seeing it, but doesn't mean some of them can't be explained by someone else. Thankfully there's a new show, Chasing UFO's, to fill in now. I don't really think I was trying to go anywhere with the post, just show, not all or everyone should be believed without doing some research. Do I believe in extra terrestrial flying objects? I believe there could be, but I haven't seen one myself, so I am a bit more skeptical, but I don't put down claims by others, and some of the videos and pics I've seen, I can't explain either.

I think youve come to the right place at the right time,we all think its the other guy that believes everything and anything but since weve all started looking into ufos weve gotten a lot lot smarter and were ready now to start openly doubting all the malarkey thats gotten into the ufo community,the problem is that should we go to far in that direction all of the old beloved tales are going to drop by the wayside so weve got to do this carefully,oh cripes Im a debunker now! Naw,no way we just have our doubts about these embellished stories.

JoyBear73 · 23rd July 2012

I think everyone knows that people are getting smarter on the subject and that they are coming up with more elaborate information. They think they are helping get more information out and making people believers, but unfortunately they are making people believe less, because they can see through the hoaxes. Which is unfortunate because those with real information aren't believed as much as they should.

23rd July 2012	#1
JoyBear73 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 17 Rep Power: 5	Not So Believable Person Some people want to believe so bad, that UFO's are real that they will believe just about anything some people that sound important say, such as Michael Schratt. He makes it seem as though he has done lots of research and has all kinds of information, but I don't think he knows as much as he and everyone listening to him thinks. Here are a few examples to prove my point. On UFO Hunters Season 3, Episode 12, The Silencers, I noticed some incorrect information. When they met with Michael Schratt, he shows them a security clearance organizational chart. This chart is just about completely wrong. I am a Retired E-6 from the U.S.A.F, and was in the Command and Control career field, the last 6 years of service were in Nuclear Command and Control. I possessed a Top Secret/Special Compartmented Information Cosmic Top Secret Atomal (TS/SCI CTSA) Security Clearance. The problems with his Security Clearance Organizational Chart are this: 1) The chart looks more like he typed it up himself, not an actual chart from any military regulation, since it has no header information from the unit that created it, which any official military document requires. 2) The chart has Restricted as the lowest level. Restricted is NOT a security clearance, it is to designate areas on or in facilities that work with classified information, and is to let others know they are not allowed to go in without prior authorization. 3) As in the previous, the next one is Unclassified, this again is NOT a security clearance, it is a security calssification, meaning the information can be given to just about anyone. 4) The chart has Special Compartmented Information (SCI) above Top Secret. SCI is not a security clearance, it is an additional identifier added to Top Secret to give access to certain information to individuals with it (i.e. nuclear material). 5) USAP does not exist, it is only SAP, which is Special Access Programs, and is NOT a security clearance, again it is an identifier allowing access to individuals that are a part of the special access program. If you don't have the identifier, you WILL NOT get any information about that program. 6) Top Secret Crypto is NOT a security clearance, it is cryptologic material used for communication equipment encryption, which some of it is Top Secret, but there is also unclassified, confidential, and secret crypto, depends on the level of encryption. 7) He says the President is level 17 TS/Crypto and makes reference to nuclear launch codes. Level 17 and crypto has nothing to do with that. Crypto was used in the equipment used to transmit the nuclear launch messages to encrypt it. I should know since my job was the receiving end of those codes and relaying them. 8) The second highest is COSMIC, again not a security clearance, it is ONLY a designation signifying access to NATO classified, keyword is NATO, ONLY personnel serving in a NATO country have that designation. 9) He does not have ATOMAL on his chart, which is good since it is also ONLY a security designator, meaning access to NATO nuclear material. 10) Although I'm not sure of any of the other ones he has listed (i.e. Astral, Stellar, Cosmos), but given all the above errors, I would have to say they are more than likely wrong or non-existent. I think the above is enough to show that he isn't as meticulous or knowing as he and others make him out to be.

Last edited by Jurgen; 23rd July 2012 at 08:47. Reason: Separated paragraphs

23rd July 2012	#2
Carol Nistri Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 16,734 Rep Power: 6395	Not So Believable Person Welcome JoyBear,thats quite a post for your first one,any chance that chart is online somewhere? __________________ NIL ILLEGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM

23rd July 2012	#3
JoyBear73 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 17 Rep Power: 5	Not So Believable Person Thanks Carol. I guess the chart would be online somewhere, everything is online lol. The chart in the UFO Hunters, Season 3, Episode 12, starts at the 24:30 minute mark though.

23rd July 2012	#4
Jurgen ⌘ Age quod agis ⌘ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,459 Rep Power: 4142	Not So Believable Person The episode concerning: __________________ ___________________________________ "If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are." - "When things do not go as supposed, I suppose things go as they do" ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

23rd July 2012	#5
JoyBear73 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 17 Rep Power: 5	Not So Believable Person Thanks for posting that Jurgen. The portion I talked about starts around 24:30.

23rd July 2012	#6
ChrisPerridas Agent Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Kentucky Age: 56 Posts: 1,703 Rep Power: 1350	Not So Believable Person Hi, JoyBear, I'm still pretty new to the forum, too. Thanks for your analysis. It helps me understand, and I agree if a person makes one mistake, start scrutinizing for more errors. At 25:00 I heard "this is all a theory..." referring to the security clearances.

23rd July 2012	#7
dr wu23 Majestic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,641 Rep Power: 3320	Not So Believable Person Thanks joy bear and welcome to the board. But what was the intent of the post?... was it to cast doubt on Schratt or the tv show or..? Where are you going with this regarding the ufo enigma? __________________ "If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't." -Emerson Pugh

23rd July 2012	#10
JoyBear73 Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 17 Rep Power: 5	Not So Believable Person I think everyone knows that people are getting smarter on the subject and that they are coming up with more elaborate information. They think they are helping get more information out and making people believers, but unfortunately they are making people believe less, because they can see through the hoaxes. Which is unfortunate because those with real information aren't believed as much as they should.